1E Resurgence?

[Psion]

Because you want more of it?

Because you like the imitation but might really like the real thing?

So, it's not old school enough? I can buy that... but you are now sliding down the continuum from Grimstaff's conjecture to mine.

I fail to see the problem, nor do I understand how and why people can say someone's "feelings" are wrong.

As far as I can recall, Grimstaff gave a conjecture in the OP and wondered if this is the reason for an observed rise in 1e threads. Can we not discuss this without assigning people's motives and assuming that they are calling someone's "feelings are wrong"?

 

[Fifth Element]

Can we not discuss this without assigning people's motives and assuming that they are calling someone's "feelings are wrong"?

So you're saying "stay on topic"? The topic being the 1E resurgence, and not "reasons why 4E is bad"?

 

[Obryn]

As for me, since I don't see "old school gaming" as an inherent positive (having been there for the good and bad), I can say that a game having an "old school vibe" in no way indicates that it "wins".

I just find that 4e is so eager to scuttle legacy D&D elements that it's far more credible to presume people would go looking for old school games because those elements are missing in 4e, not because those elements are present. I mean, if 4e gave you the old school feel you liked, then why would you go looking for it somewhere else?

I don't think that's really the argument, though.

It's undeniable that 1e/2e, 3e, and 4e are better at doing certain things than each other. Different editions scratch different itches. Just because 4e does some things like 1e, and it runs similarly from the DM side of the screen, doesn't mean it's the best tool for every job. Mechanically, it's not an old-school game by any stretch of the imagination.

I like the abstract, narrative, gamist feel of 4e. I also like the abstract, somewhat-schizophrenic, mysterious, and flavorful aspects of 1e. I don't really think this is a contradiction at all. As you mentioned, 4e is missing some of the oddball legacy of 1e... but that's not the only element of an old-school feel for me. It's just one part.

Basically, I think you're conflating several definitions of the term "old-school D&D." There's the weird Gygaxian legacy stuff, there's the sacred cows, there's the mechanics and sub-systems, there's increased character fragility, there's DMing style, and there's gameplay style. If I say 4e has an oldschool feel, it's pretty clear I'm not talking about the whole package.

-O

 

[Henry]

Can we not discuss this without assigning people's motives and assuming that they are calling someone's "feelings are wrong"?

I agree.

 

[Psion]

So you're saying "stay on topic"? The topic being the 1E resurgence, and not "reasons why 4E is bad"?

While staying on topic is good (and I'll insist that I have if you are insinuating otherwise), what I am really imploring my fellow posters to do is stop making assumptions about other posters' motivations or assigning statements to them that they didn't make.

 

[Psion]

If I say 4e has an oldschool feel, it's pretty clear I'm not talking about the whole package.

Certainly. But apparently, what Grimstaff and you obviously identify as legacy elements are those important to you and still present in 4e. Others (Shazman and myself) identify elements as important or "signature" that aren't shared.

 

[Obryn]

Certainly. But apparently, what Grimstaff and you obviously identify as legacy elements are those important to you and still present in 4e. Others (Shazman and myself) identify elements as important or "signature" that aren't shared.

Um... right?

Isn't that what I've been saying? That there's a lot of elements that go into an oldschool feel, and that 4e hits some of them, and misses others? And that when people argue about whether or not it has an oldschool feel, they're just talking past one another, since they're not looking at the same elements?

-O

 

[Psion]

Um... right?

Isn't that what I've been saying?

It may be. You tell me.

That there's a lot of elements that go into an oldschool feel, and that 4e hits some of them, and misses others? And that when people argue about whether or not it has an oldschool feel, they're just talking past one another, since they're not looking at the same elements?

It would appear so.

 

[Obryn]

It may be. You tell me.

It would appear so.

OK, so then why are we debating this, again?

-O

 

[frankthedm]

Is it my imagination, or has there been an increase of interest (ie posts) in 1E the last few weeks?

Whatever it is, glad to see 1E AD&D is not going to fade away any time soon...

4th edition brought to light the flaws of 3E in a very brutal fashion. By doing this, it succeeded in killing many folks desire to play or run 3E, though 3E did not need a lot of help discouraging DMs. But, not everyone who was soured on 3E liked the direction 4E went.

So now that 4E & 3E are no longer options, the only options with the D&D name are retro.