2[W] and Versatile?

[Harr]

Sorry, when I said clearly, directly, etc etc I wasn't referring the "Versatile" I was referring to adding weapon bonus numbers to a power roll. My bad.

Page 276, Attack Results. Right column middle of the page, "Example: Valenae, a 12th level eladrin paladin, hits a foe with a thunder smite,. The attack deals 2[W] + strength modifier and knocks the target prone. The damage would be 2d8 (longsword's d8x2) + 7. The +7 bonus includes her +3 Strength modifier, a +2 feat bonus (Weapon Focus), and a +2 enhancement bonus (from her +2 thundering longsword).

That whole page ('Damage') is admittedly a bit ambiguous on our point, but I think the example says it very clearly... if the weapon's own intrinsic bonus for magical enhancement is not multiplied, why should any other bonus be multiplied. Versatile isn't that special of a bonus that it should precede even a magical enhancement bonus.

The sidebar there "Damage Rolls" also makes it pretty clear that additional bonuses are added at the end.

Edit -> Hmm ok, you know what, I think this is a matter of definition more than anything... if you consider that the longsdword's actual "damage die" simply increases to 1d6+1 instead of getting a +1 bonus, then I can see what you say makes sense. Unfortunately I can't find anything to define it either way, and since I can't see any other weapon anywhere that has a 1dx+y die, I'm going with no multiplying.

 

[Makaze]

Hmm ok, you know what, I think this is a matter of definition more than anything... if you consider that the longsdword's actual "damage die" simply increases to 1d6+1 instead of getting a +1 bonus, then I can see what you say makes sense. Unfortunately I can't find anything to define it either way, and since I can't see any other weapon anywhere that has a 1dx+y die, I'm going with no multiplying.

Exactly. And the book isn't very clear as to which that is to me. Though the fact that magical enhancement bonuses are not multiplied and that it would make the greatsword entirely irrelevant instead of just crappy make me lean toward only applying it once.

On the other hand it makes versatile fairly irrelevant past the heroic tier since +1 damage ain't that great so...

 

[cdrcjsn]

The problem with the versatile bonus not multiplying is that it doesn't increase with level.

Also, is it a bonus to damage or does it change the range of the weapon? Unlike the feat descriptions, it doesn't say it's a Bonus to damage. It's just extra damage. 1d8 with +1 bonus to damage is different than changing the weapon range to 2-9.

I think it can be interpreted either way at this point and we're gonna have to wait for a FAQ to clarify it.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

my take after reading the rest of this thread.

NO the +1 is just a bonus to and not apart of the [W]

YES Longsword gains a +3 to damage when wielded two handed with power attack, and can be a single or two handed weapon depending on its use.

I think thats good enough. I mean if you want, you can get a bastard sword.

 

[Traken]

Hmm, okay, I'm starting to come around a bit. The fact that "An item bonus" is added after multiplying got me thinking a bit. I'd still like to see something official, but it makes a lot more sense with a static +1 now.

I'm sorry if I came out a bit offensive (?), but when something is "clearly" said, I'd think I would have come upon it once while reading through the book.

Not sure if it matters, but I'm a pure DM atm, so I don't really care if a greatsword is useless. I'm quite tired of my entire party carrying around a greatsword because it's 'the best'. Yes, even the Wizards carried around greatswords....:shrug:

 

[Surgoshan]

Mearls also said that you should read the rules so that the player gets the most benefit. That means multiply the +1. Take that!

Granted, it wasn't an official statement.

 

[Saitou]

It takes some digging, but the DMG provides clarification. As someone else stated in this thread, n[W] refers to weapon dice, not weapon damage.

This means that if you're wielding a +2 magic longsword and use a power that deals 3[W]+STR, you roll 3d8 and add enhancement and strength modifiers after that. Same goes for the versatile bonus.

The difference being that if a power deals only [W] (no stat related damage), you still deal that +2 damage due to magic enhancement, and versatile as applies.


tl;dr Only the number of die are multiplied for 2[W], not the static bonus.

 

[jasin]

You misread Mearl's post. Wasn't talking about the +1 to damage.

Edit : What Harr said.

You are quite right. Sorry for snapping at you.

 

[Inge Tietz]

The text says:
Versatile weapons are one-handed, but you can use them two-handed. If you do, you deal an extra 1 point of damage when you roll damage for the weapon.

And the "damage you roll" for a longsword in a power with e.g. 2[W] means: 2W8.
And THEN you add "+1"

 

[TwoSix]

Well, I'm glad that the issue has finally been resolved.