[3.5] Archers nerfed! Meleers/Spellcasters rejoice!

[Elder-Basilisk]

No more stupid than the idea that the archer automatically knows all these special ammos he has to carry around.

<snipped mocking example>

Yep, that will be just so realistic as every archer suddenly knows what all the DR dependent materials are and collects a dozen arrows of each type to carry around.

Actually, what's stupid is the idea that the archer would not know. Given the realities of the D&D world, it's likely that somebody an adventurer knows or met in a tavern died to a damage resistant monster. (Probably two degrees of separation at most). It's quite likely that the archer would then ask around (ask the party wizard, clerics, etc) what could harm such creatures and make sure to have a basic selection of arrows prepared for such contingencies.

Most people IRL know that silver hurts werewolves and that stakes through the heart kill vampires and neither creature even exists in our world. In a world where both creatures really existed, every adventurer would know that kind of thing. They might not know about the necessity of holysilver for harming pit fiends but by the time they were getting ready to face CR 16-20 monsters, they should have come across that kind of info.

 

[Conaill]

I can see it now... the Arrow Variety Pack! 5 arrows each of 10 different materials. Complete with color coded fletchings, and a little chart with pictograms of the various monsters each on is used for.

As for enchanting arrows 50 at a time... there's no reason those all have to be made from the same material, right?

 

[coyote6]

Re: Re: Re

I suspect the duration probably has, given the stat buff changes.

OTOH, D20 Modern's GMW lasts 1 hour/level, so maybe not.

If they reduce GMW to 1 minute/level, change it to not work on ammunition, and change DR so that it's just DR x/magic (so no specific plus is needed, just any magic weapon), then GMW is actually only good for getting the extra plus to attack and damage. If all you're worried about is DR, plain old 1st level magic weapon is all you'll need.

One per arrow, for the archers.

PS: It should still be 10 min/level. Heck, while I'm at it, weapon of the deity should last longer than 1 round/level.

 

[Angcuru]

While this change does add 'balance' to archers, I don't agree with it, mechanic-wise. A bow with an enhancement bonus fires off an arrow with greater accuracy, speed, and power, thus increasing the chance to hit. Arrows with enhancement bonuses are simply sharper, as well as add more force to the blow. If you can use a +3 Mighty(+2) Bow with normal arrows for a total attack bonus of +3 and damage bonus of +2, you should be able to use +2 arrows with that bow for a total attack bonus of +5 and damage of +4. Saying that this should not be, simple because it makes archers more effective than swordsmen, is lacking a certain amount of...sense. Magic Launcher+Magic Ammo= REALLY nice attack. However, magic ammo is not cheap, by any standard. While melee fighters can buy a sword and hack'n'slash all day long, us archers have to watch our ammo supply. The fact that magic ammo is just that, ammo, which is of temporary and finite supply, is a balancing factor in itself.

Personally, I think WotC has developed quite the balance fetish.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Actually, what's stupid is the idea that the archer would not know. Given the realities of the D&D world, it's likely that somebody an adventurer knows or met in a tavern died to a damage resistant monster. (Probably two degrees of separation at most). It's quite likely that the archer would then ask around (ask the party wizard, clerics, etc) what could harm such creatures and make sure to have a basic selection of arrows prepared for such contingencies.

Most people IRL know that silver hurts werewolves and that stakes through the heart kill vampires and neither creature even exists in our world. In a world where both creatures really existed, every adventurer would know that kind of thing. They might not know about the necessity of holysilver for harming pit fiends but by the time they were getting ready to face CR 16-20 monsters, they should have come across that kind of info.

You are not comparing a world where the average person is illiterate and books are all handwritten to our modern society of mass media are you?

Cause if you think they are fair comparisons then I am going to start laughing.

BTW, if the only Vampire movie I have ever seen was Blade I would not bother with a cross and I would use silver on a vampire. By DnD terms of course I would be toast since silver does nothing.

So your example does not hold water at all.

 

[Conaill]

Personally, I think WotC has developed quite the balance fetish.

Personally, I kinda like it if my game company has a balance fetish.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

While this change does add 'balance' to archers, I don't agree with it, mechanic-wise. A bow with an enhancement bonus fires off an arrow with greater accuracy, speed, and power, thus increasing the chance to hit. Arrows with enhancement bonuses are simply sharper, as well as add more force to the blow. If you can use a +3 Mighty(+2) Bow with normal arrows for a total attack bonus of +3 and damage bonus of +2, you should be able to use +2 arrows with that bow for a total attack bonus of +5 and damage of +4. Saying that this should not be, simple because it makes archers more effective than swordsmen, is lacking a certain amount of...sense. Magic Launcher+Magic Ammo= REALLY nice attack. However, magic ammo is not cheap, by any standard. While melee fighters can buy a sword and hack'n'slash all day long, us archers have to watch our ammo supply. The fact that magic ammo is just that, ammo, which is of temporary and finite supply, is a balancing factor in itself.

Personally, I think WotC has developed quite the balance fetish.

So the fact that a 10th level archer can be + 25 to hit while a 10th level melee can only get to +19 doesnt matter to you at all?

Especially when you figure that the archer has to put LESS effort forward to get to a position to use a full round attack vs a melee guy.

 

[Angcuru]

So the fact that a 10th level archer can be + 25 to hit while a 10th level melee can only get to +19 doesnt matter to you at all?

Especially when you figure that the archer has to put LESS effort forward to get to a position to use a full round attack vs a melee guy.

Different combat styles have different advantages. That's just how things are.

How can a 10th level melee only get to +19? You get +10 from BAB, usually max +5 from magic item, and your +whatever from STR. A well-rolled half-orc can get +21 to hit, not counting STR-increasing items.

 

[Angcuru]

DP

 

[Thels]

I think it's good that they made the bonusses stack. However, they should make it so that magical arrows still have use. Personally, I kinda like the idea that Bows add to to hit and Arrows add to damage, only personally, I would probably switch those around.

Maybe something else could be applied though, for example, the tohit bonus is half the bow bonus (round down) + half the arrow bonus (round down) while the damage bonus is half the bow bonus (round up) + half the arrow bonus (round up).