D&D 3E/3.5 (3.5) Monks and Wisdom

[Cyclone Duke]

Hey guys, I am going to be making a monk in 3.5 soon, and with a point buy of 16, 16, 14, 10, 8, 8.

I'm thinking of going
STR 16
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 8

I'm aware that monk has WIS as it's main stat, to the point of Stunning Fist DC and bonus AC gain.

However, Stunning Fist scales badly and is only usable on low-fort enemies.
The AC gain can be gained by simply putting points in DEX instead, which will also give more relevant skills (balance, tumble etc), and inititive.

Gaining the same AC from dex means only stunning fist is remaining for any reason to have WIS. But there are class features to just skip this seemingly bad feature for something better. (Fiery fists or something).


So bottom line - is WIS any use for a monk apart from AC and Stunning Fist (and obv will save)?

 

[xigbar]

Hey guys, I am going to be making a monk in 3.5 soon, and with a point buy of 16, 16, 14, 10, 8, 8.

I'm thinking of going
STR 16
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 8

I'm aware that monk has WIS as it's main stat, to the point of Stunning Fist DC and bonus AC gain.

However, Stunning Fist scales badly and is only usable on low-fort enemies.
The AC gain can be gained by simply putting points in DEX instead, which will also give more relevant skills (balance, tumble etc), and inititive.

Gaining the same AC from dex means only stunning fist is remaining for any reason to have WIS. But there are class features to just skip this seemingly bad feature for something better. (Fiery fists or something).


So bottom line - is WIS any use for a monk apart from AC and Stunning Fist (and obv will save)?

One of the main reasons a monk is so underpowered is because it's so dependent on so many attributes, yes you can make a monk with average Wis, but you'll be taking even more hits than necessary. Keep in mind that a Monk is supposed to be a combatant, to a certain extent.

 

[Cyclone Duke]

This build is assuming that my monk will have a guarenteed, full day mage armor from a

friend.At 8th level, he will have base 10 + 1 monk free AC + 3 dex + 2 from ring/bracers + 4 from mage armor gives a respectable 20 AC.

I can't imagine sacrificing melee chance to hit/damage from STR, health from CON for the WIS, purely for AC. I get the AC from dex instead, but get more benefits from it.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Gaining the same AC from dex means only stunning fist is remaining for any reason to have WIS. But there are class features to just skip this seemingly bad feature for something better. (Fiery fists or something).

That isn't really what it means. The dex and wis mods to AC are cumulative. Simply having high dex does not give a monk good or even average AC. Wis replaces armor, not dex, so you still need it unless you want to be an easy target.

Wis also affects a number of useful class skills, besides the obvious will save and AC. I'm all for playing against type, but a low-wis monk is not an ideal build.

 

[xigbar]

This build is assuming that my monk will have a guarenteed, full day mage armor from a

friend.At 8th level, he will have base 10 + 1 monk free AC + 3 dex + 2 from ring/bracers + 4 from mage armor gives a respectable 20 AC.

I can't imagine sacrificing melee chance to hit/damage from STR, health from CON for the WIS, purely for AC. I get the AC from dex instead, but get more benefits from it.

A Gargantuan Monstrous Spider (CR 8 Creature) hits you on a roll of 8, or, all but 35% of the time. On average rolls, this brings you down from an estimated health of 56 to 37. Alternatively, a Nine-Headed Hydra hits you on a 6, bringing you down to.....dead. It's not reall your fault though. It's inherent in the monk, and most games give you 4 extra points to spend on scores, which would have made your AC 22. Great Mage Armor from your friend gives you a shot at not getting eviscerated.

 

[Cyclone Duke]

Low AC is simply part of the class. I think that by devoting high scores to both DEX and WIS just to get the AC of a cleric is a waste of a good possible STR or CON score.

I don't want to gimp the character's damage or health for the sake of over-compensating his low AC.

Compare the situation to if I was giving him high WIS and low DEX. He's still taking an AC loss, but also now as lower inititive and class-useful skills.

Low AC is just part of the class, like rogue. Yeah, you might get gibbed. But only as much as a rogue or other not-plate class will.

 

[xigbar]

Low AC is simply part of the class. I think that by devoting high scores to both DEX and WIS just to get the AC of a cleric is a waste of a good possible STR or CON score.

I don't want to gimp the character's damage or health for the sake of over-compensating his low AC.

Compare the situation to if I was giving him high WIS and low DEX. He's still taking an AC loss, but also now as lower inititive and class-useful skills.

Low AC is just part of the class, like rogue. Yeah, you might get gibbed. But only as much as a rogue or other not-plate class will.

Actually, a typical TWF Rogue can have absurd AC, because with even more DEX emphasis than the Monk, and Light Armor (*enhanceable* light armor) it can have an AC rivaling the typical Fighter. You won't likely have that much of a damage output as a monk, although only being able to deal damage is one of the reasons the monk is weak to begin with.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

1) IME, that Wis bonus to AC is more useful in combat than the bonus HP from a high con. HP are ablative- once they're gone, they stay gone until you get some healing. AC bonuses are non-ablative: they help you with every attack roll made against you.

2) Some PrCls (and other things) for Monk key off of having a high Wis. The Shiba Protector adds the Wis bonus to Att/Dam, for instance.

 

[Dandu]

Suggestion: Build a Swordsage instead of a Monk.

Or, you know, a Druid.

 

[Talonblaze]

Wis AC > Dex AC
Its not usually bad to have both Dex and Wis to a Monk's AC, however Dex doesn't affect as much of their abilities as Wis does and only affects a few of their skills.

Plus, unless your planning on using ranged attacks Dex is less of a priority. And even so, taking Zen Archery changes that. (Can't remember if its with all ranged attacks.)