30 levels, without the epic tier

[Tequila Sunrise]

After a painfully boring level 0 experience as a player, I wrote some basic level 0 rules in my blog that may help you.

Good luck!

 

[Prestidigitalis]

I have a completely off-the-wall idea for you --

Play the first 10 levels with a different game system. Then switch to 4e when they hit what you consider to be level 1.

I don't have any suggestions on what system -- D&D has always been my game. But I'm sure there must be one that works well for what you have in mind.

 

[Solvarn]

Makes more sense

Rather than redevelop the game, just stay in the heroic tier.

But re-evaluate the "10 encounters per level" guideline. Instead of having 30 levels with 10 encounters each (totaling 300 encounters) have 10 levels with 30 encounters each (totaling 300 encounters).

If your player's can get over not leveling up after each session, there are a lot of subtle rewards to this style of gameplay. There are some tradeoffs too, but it can and has been done. In OD&D "Fighting-Men" were capped at level 9, "Lord", with 240,000XP, for example.

This makes a lot more sense. The entire point of paragon and epic is that it scales with the PC's. It involves way too much work to make alterations, and even when finished you aren't going to be happy with what you get.

I understand what you are getting at, but for what you are wanting there are better systems out there.

I'd also be sure that your players are ok with this style of game.

 

[phloog]

For me the zero level issue isnt so much player stats (limit hps, limit powers...)...it is in encounter design...i am just too new to this to know what wouldnt instantly TPK a group of adjusted PCs

 

[Obryn]

As you can see, I could add 5 more levels below lvl1, without having create a new mechanic for the monsters.

It's a start, and I'm very far from the finish line, but you gave me enough ideas, to be able to actually pull it off.

The thing is, more than any other edition, 4e isn't about the numbers that much. The actual stuff you can do changes from level to level, more than the numbers do.

If I advance 4 levels, I will get +2 to skills, +2 to defenses, +1 to two attributes, and +2 to attacks. I'll also get somewhere between 16 and 24 hps...

More importantly, though, I also get at least 2 feats and probably 3 powers. This is way more important than those boring numbers. And that's where this will run into problems.

You can extrapolate tables to go below level 1 or above level 30, but none of those are really worth a hill of beans. What's important, and what everyone who's played 4e cares about, is what you can do with those levels.

If you take too much away from 1st-level characters and expect to run a game like that over many sessions, you will end up with boring games. Without a decent selection of powers, the various classes lose all meaning.

-O

 

[TikkchikFenTikktikk]

Rereading your original post, what you want is any edition of D&D prior to 4th; in particular Basic or Original D&D.

Fighters just swing swords, no powers at all. Wizards start with a single spell they can use once a day. Clerics don't get any spells until level two. Thieves can try to spring traps, pick locks, etc., but their chance of success is in the single digits.

You'll find playing this way is extremely difficult. Don't get attached to your character until they hit level 5, because odds are the next time they get into combat or explore a dungeon they are going to die. Roll up a new character and try again.

 

[pclaw8]

I agree that ten levels below heroic will end up with boring encounters. My idea of a zero level would be basic attacks only (including things such as magic missile). Subtract HP equal to the amount gained per level. This to me would give the effect of still being a cut above the average person, but not yet seasoned adventurer, ie. a wizard's apprentice or an acolyte at Pelor's temple.

To deal with the issue of epic tier, you could simply end the campaign at the end of paragon. I think of tiers of play like your news paper. Heroic is local news, increasing to state around seven or so. Paragon would be state growing to national. Epic is like national ending in world.

With this in mind, you could end the campaign after the characters "slay the dragon and rescue the princess," but before they find out what kind of otherworldly entity was controlling the dragon, thus leading to treks to other planes of existence.

Sent from my Samsung Captivate using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

If you look at a new game system, say a class and level based system, and the first thing you want to do is chop off 1/3 of the progression and water down the beginning levels because they are too powerful, you're probably better off going with a different game than trying to re-engineer that one, especially with a fantasy game. There are more fantasy RPG's out there than anything else.

I'll echo the above poster who mentioned Basic D&D (or Labyrinth Lord, freely available online) - it's a lot closer to what you're looking for and a lot less work. It also avoids any confusion on the players part as to what they're playing if you're forming a new group.

 

[TikkchikFenTikktikk]

I'll echo the above poster who mentioned Basic D&D (or Labyrinth Lord, freely available online) - it's a lot closer to what you're looking for and a lot less work. It also avoids any confusion on the players part as to what they're playing if you're forming a new group.

Labyrinth Lord is great. I see they have some "advanced" stuff now, but just download the free core rules and see if that's too your liking. I've played in several Play-By-Post (PBP) games using the LL rules and I'm pretty sure it'll have the feel you're looking for, especially if you have player's roll their attributes.