D&D 5E 4-Element monks are the only monk archetype that excels against flying enemies

[Asisreo]

I suppose if you don't have any real casters in your group, and in between levels 6 and 11 you expect to encounter a lot of enemies that fly at 35', it's a solid choice.

Not even that, I mean, flying enemies can't be all that rare by the second tier and even the first tier has a few flying CR appropriate beasts. They don't have to be at 35', being within 30ft is what allows the Water Whip anyways.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

As far as the balance of Four Elements Monk, after having followed threads in the past, I've been convinced by the arguments that just allowing them to use all their stuff as bonus actions rather than actions probably works. I think it would be nice to insert one or more of the elemental cantrips (like gust and mold earth) into their progression at some point too.

That's exactly what I did in my game. Works like a charm.

 

[Flamestrike]

Spears, javelins, daggers etc are all Monk weapons (and thus benefit from Dex to hit and damage instead of Strength, and use the Monk damage dice) and can be thrown.

 

[Asisreo]

Spears, javelins, daggers etc are all Monk weapons (and thus benefit from Dex to hit and damage instead of Strength, and use the Monk damage dice) and can be thrown.

They still aren't getting you flurry of blows and stunning strike. Monks excel at melee, having ranged options doesn't change that.

 

[Flamestrike]

They still aren't getting you flurry of blows and stunning strike. Monks excel at melee, having ranged options doesn't change that.

Not if you have a single flying thing to get at, no. But you can throw them (with the attack action) move and punch or flurry something else.

How is it any different to Barbs and Paladins? They also suck at ranged combat.

Not that it's really much of a concern. Any Monk worth his salt is decked out in Boots of Flying by mid tier at some point. As should any Barbarian or Paladin (two other classes that suck with Ranged attacks).

Personally I give all Monks a Flying speed for a round (equal to land speed) when they use their Step of the Wind class feature from 14th level onwards.

Thats just my HR though.

 

[Asisreo]

Not if you have a single flying thing to get at, no. But you can throw them (with the attack action) move and punch or flurry something else.

How is it any different to Barbs and Paladins? They also suck at ranged combat.

Not that it's really much of a concern. Any Monk worth his salt is decked out in Boots of Flying by mid tier at some point. As should any Barbarian or Paladin (two other classes that suck with Ranged attacks).

Personally I give all Monks a Flying speed for a round (equal to land speed) when they use their Step of the Wind class feature from 14th level onwards.

Thats just my HR though.

Even then, it's good to have a way to bring flying enemies down for the aforementioned paladins and barbarians.

Relying on magic items isn't something to build around, either. Choosing monk shouldn't force the DM to introduce a flying magic item, especially if they could've flown in a different archetype.

Speaking of paladins, did you know you can crit fish Fire Snakes like a paladin can with spellslots? And since it isn't a spell, you can dump all your ki points at once. For example, at level 6, you can crit fish and do (2d6+dex+8d10) fire damage in one attack, deciding to upKi after the attack hits, of course and assuming you wanted to flurry of blows to fish (which you didn't need to do, at this point you make 3 free attacks a turn, an extra attack for extra 2d10 might be worth it).

They certainly aren't just a one-trick pony as you imagine, though. Dragging flying enemies down is their strongest card, yes, but they have hard hitting AoE's unlike other melee combatants. These AoE's usually outdamage flurry of blows per Ki point so they're a great option to really put numbers on the board.

Of course, EK's have a melee/AoE system going, but they don't have evasion, proficiency in all saves with potential to reroll, BA dodge/hide/disengage, unarmored movement, and Stunning Strike all at once like a monk does.

This is why I discourage comparing one feature of a subclass with another feature of a different subclass, they have different synergies with the overall class.

 

[Flamestrike]

Even then, it's good to have a way to bring flying enemies down for the aforementioned paladins and barbarians.

Relying on magic items isn't something to build around, either. Choosing monk shouldn't force the DM to introduce a flying magic item, especially if they could've flown in a different archetype.

It doesnt force the DM to do anything. Some classes have strengths and weaknesses. Monks (like Paladins and Fighters) arent very good at range.

Monks ameliorate this by being really fast and mobile so they're actually better at ranged engagements than the Paladins and Barbarians.

If Im playing one of those classes (heck; if I'm playing ANY class) I'm getting access to flight one way or another by T2, rain hail or shine. It's my first priority in fact.

I personally try to work in a few things into every PC I have. Flight is one, and the ability to cast Misty Step is another (to get around Walls of Force and Forcecage type shennanigans).

Speaking of paladins, did you know you can crit fish Fire Snakes like a paladin can with spellslots? And since it isn't a spell, you can dump all your ki points at once. For example, at level 6, you can crit fish and do (2d6+dex+8d10) fire damage in one attack, deciding to upKi after the attack hits, of course and assuming you wanted to flurry of blows to fish (which you didn't need to do, at this point you make 3 free attacks a turn, an extra attack for extra 2d10 might be worth it).

IF you just happen to roll a Natural 20, and IF you just happen to have all your Ki available, and want to blow it all in one hit.

Not exactly something I personally would ever bank on, and that's before you consider FotFS gives you a 10' reach. Not exactly a 'ranged' attack.

This is why I discourage comparing one feature of a subclass with another feature of a different subclass, they have different synergies with the overall class.

You're entitled to your opinion, but they're a weak subclass. The weakest of the Monk subclasses by a fair margin. Which is a shame, because it's such a cool concept.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

If Im playing one of those classes (heck; if I'm playing ANY class) I'm getting access to flight one way or another by T2, rain hail or shine. It's my first priority in fact.

And how exactly do you do that? Put the DM in a headlock until he coughs up the goods?

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Yes, and as a bonus action it made the subclass. (Though as very much a one trick pony.)

My own fix is to reduce all the ki costs by 1, so that you can actually use the abilities without feeling so much like you are impacting your primary role. But it's not a fantastic fix, lots of people have done more complicated things. Making them bonus actions seems good too, but I guess that the ki cost is more of a barrier to use than the action economy. Not sure though.

For me, turning the spells into a bonus action allows the monk to use his cool abilities (spells) in concert with this primary function (melee). Reducing the Ki cost still forces the monk to choose between casting a spell or engaging in melee, which (in my opinion) doesn't solve the primary problem the subclass faces.

 

[Flamestrike]

And how exactly do you do that? Put the DM in a headlock until he coughs up the goods?

If crafting is allowed, I craft an item that lets me. If buying is allowed, I buy an item that lets me.

If neither is allowed, I gain access to spells (or other abilities) that let me via levels or race.