4 Hours w/ RSD - Escapist Bonus Column

As many of you know, the Escapist has recently run a 3-part series on the past, current and future of Dungeons & Dragons. The ENWorld coverage begins here. I contributed some insights to that column and wanted to take this opportunity to expand and clarify some of my thoughts on this topic. Who Is This Guy Anyway? I [Ryan Dancey] have been involved on the business side of hobby game...

As many of you know, the Escapist has recently run a 3-part series on the past, current and future of Dungeons & Dragons. The ENWorld coverage begins here.

I contributed some insights to that column and wanted to take this opportunity to expand and clarify some of my thoughts on this topic.

GenCon2009-LisaStevens-OVC0U8.jpg

Who Is This Guy Anyway?

I [Ryan Dancey] have been involved on the business side of hobby game publishing since 1993, when I operated one of the first on-line/mail order hobby game stores, RPG International. It was through my work at RPG International that I met the team at Alderac Entertainment Group with whom I co-created the Legend of the Five Rings intellectual property, eventually spinning it out into a stand-alone company called Five Rings Publishing Group which was acquired by Wizards of the Coast in 1997 as a part of the process whereby Wizards also acquired TSR. I was at Wizards, working as a brand manager on trading card games and eventually leading the brand and business unit for Dungeons & Dragons until early in 2001 when I left to found a startup providing organized play services to 3rd party game companies, wound that down in 2003 and worked as a consultant until 2007 when I became the Chief Marketing Officer of CCP. Currently I’m the CEO of Goblinworks, a startup company developing a next-generation fantasy MMO.

I give that background (again for those of you who read the first column in this series; sorry for the repetition) just to establish the fact that I’ve been watching this industry closely for a very long time and feel I’ve got some insights worth sharing.

The Tabletop Roleplaying Game Hobby Is Contracting

Let me begin with a few simple statistics.

In 1995, when I was writing the business plan for the Legend of the Five Rings CCG, I assumed, based on the conventional wisdom at the time, that there were approximately 5,000 full line hobby gaming stores in the North American market. After arriving at Wizards of the Coast in 1997, I was surprised to discover that Wizards had been able to identify (after extensive work) only about 2,500 stores. In addition, there were about 2,500-3,000 mass-market book stores that sold some hobby gaming products; mostly TRPGs, and mostly just D&D.

Today, the best data I have been able to assemble leads me to believe that there are less than 1,000 full line hobby gaming stores left, and there may be as few as 500.

Of those mass-market bookstores, B. Dalton is gone. Waldenbooks is gone. Borders is going. Barnes & Nobel is not healthy. Today, there are only about 1,000 mass-market bookstores left (717 are Barnes & Nobel stores). That is meaningful because historically 50% of the D&D business was sold via mass-market bookstores and the loss of those stores has directly impacted D&D (and other TRPGs) significantly.

In 1994, when I attended my first GenCon, the list of exhibitors at the show included many companies that earned most (or all) of their income from selling tabletop RPGs, and who employed one or more full time TRPG designer/developers: Atlas Games, Chaosium, Dream Pod Nine, FASA, Game Designers Workshop, Heartbreaker, Hero Games, Iron Crown Enterprises, Mayfair, Palladium, R. Talsorian, Steve Jackson Games, TSR, West End Games, White Wolf, and I’m sure there’s others I’ve regretfully omitted.

In addition to those companies there was another constellation of small publishers consisting of one or two people trying to make a start in the business, working part time as TRPG designer/publishers, and buzzing around all these companies were dozens (maybe as many as a hundred) freelancers who made all or a significant part of their incomes from TRPG design work.

It’s notable that many in the industry saw the period from 1994-1999 as being fairly bad for TRPGs. The twin rise of collectible card games and the Games Workshop hobby appeared to be draining the TRPG segment of designers and of revenue. The most obvious sign of this problem was the failure of TSR’s business, leading to its acquisition by Wizards of the Coast in 1997.

I would argue that the segment actually brought on most of its woes by simply producing too much product. The proliferation of games, game worlds, and “house systems” so fragmented the market that despite indications that overall revenue remained fairly constant for TRPGs as a segment, the income earned per product and per company became so sub-divided that many (both products & companies) became unprofitable.

A second major factor at work was the consolidation of the distribution tier. When I was selling Legend of the Five Rings in 1996, we had an initial list of North American distributors of about 50. By the end of the decade, that list had shrunk to about a dozen. In fact, virtually every distributor in the market was either sold or closed between 1990 and 1999 – the people who had created the distribution network for TRPGs cashed out to the people who rebuilt it for the CCG business.

This consolidation had an unexpected effect on the TRPG publishers. Every distributor prior to the late 1990s had engaged in a practice whereby they ordered product from TRPG publishers in bulk, and held the inventory in their warehouses to fulfill retailer orders as needed. The standard industry terms were for the distributors to pay the publishers 30 days after receipt of the products. This created cashflow that sustained the publishers – they did not have to wait for every book they printed to sell, they could get the money immediately and transfer the risk of slow sales to the distribution tier. And in addition, every distributor tended to order about 10% more than they could realistically sell, as a hedge against as surprise hit. When the distribution tier consolidated, the publishers suddenly lost tremendous volume in terms of sales and cash. That 10%, multiplied by 50 distributors, was a lot of books. And the distributors that were left were run with much tighter financial policies, leading many to cease pre-paying for inventory and instead asking to hold it “on consignment” – that is, they wanted to pay for the product as they sold it, transferring the risk back to the publishers.

When I took control of the brand & business unit for TRPGs at Wizards of the Coast at the end of 1997, I asked Lisa Stevens to do a market research project to figure out what had really happened in the history of the industry and how we had (collectively) gotten ourselves into the deep hole we found ourselves in.

There were two basic answers revealed by her research.

The first was that the products the industry was producing had become too costly. The boxed set, in particular, was a huge problem. The cost of a boxed set vs. a hardcover book was often a multiple, rather than a percentage. The cost of a hardcover vs. a softcover book was also substantial. In fact, we found several high profile D&D products that were costing the company more to make than the suggested retail price of those products! This issue was endemic throughout the industry, since many publishers assumed they had to “keep up” with TSR in order to be competitive. But TSR wasn’t acting rationally, and had set its suggested retail prices based on its opinion of what the market would pay, not based on what they needed to charge in order to make a profit on the things they were publishing.

In this field, we often use a shorthand pricing system called the “Rule of 5”. Under this rule, you determine the suggested price of a product by multiplying the cost of the product by 5. Factoring in the 3-tier distribution system the industry uses, the result is that the final suggested retail price produces the following divisions:

• 20%: Cost of Goods (the cost of the production of the product, plus the wages paid to people who worked on it and any licenses or royalties)
• 20%: Gross Profit (that is, profit before subtracting all operational costs like salaries, marketing, rent, etc.) to the Publisher
• 20%: Distributor Margin (the gross profit the Distributor earns)
• 40%: Retailer Margin (the gross profit the Retailer earns)

This means that every $1 of cost increases the suggested retail price by $5. Some of the things TSR was doing were adding $10 to the cost of its products – which should have added $50 to the suggested retail prices – easily pushing many of those products into the $100 range. Instead, TSR was just losing money every time it sold one of these products. And the people who made those products never knew, because TSR’s dysfunctional management system hid that information from them. It was not until they got to Wizards of the Coast and had a chance to see the “real numbers” that they realized what had been happening.

The second issue that Lisa’s data revealed led us to our conceptual breakthrough about the business of TRPGs that shaped every decision we made when bringing the 3rd Edition of D&D to the market.

We realized that TRPGs fall into a special class of products & services that generate network effects. In our case, the effect that had the most impact was the concept of the network externality. For TRPGs, the “true value” of the product is not in the book/box that you buy. It is in the network of social connections that you share which enable you to play the game. Without that social network, the game’s value is massively reduced (it becomes literature, and there’s a small market for people who like to just read and never play TRPG content).

We began to view the market not as a series of product pyramids (a core book at the top, and an ever-broadening base of support materials produced over time), but instead as a series of human webs that overlapped and interconnected. Where those webs were strong, the products flourished. Where they were weak, the products failed. The limiting factor to the growth and strength of the TRPG market was not retail stores or shelf space, it was human brains within which these games could interconnect.

The more segmented those brains became, the weaker the overall social network was. Every new game system, and every new variant to those systems, subdivided that network further, making it weaker. Between 1993 and 1999, the social network of the TRPG players had become seriously frayed. Even if you just looked at the network of Dungeons & Dragons players you could see this effect: People self-segmented into groups playing Basic D&D, 1st Edition, 2nd Edition, and within 2nd Edition into various Campaign Settings that had become their own game variants. The effect on the market was that it became increasingly hard to make and sell something that had enough players in common that it would earn back its costs of development and production.

We looked around the industry and saw the same problem at virtually every company that had become successful: White Wolf had 5 World of Darkness games which were all slightly different, surrounded by a more diffuse constellation of games somewhat related to the Storyteller system but designed to be mutually incompatible. FASA had 4 games, none of which shared anything in common. Palladium & Steve Jackson Games both had “house systems” that they tried to use across their entire product lines, but they had ended up with the “Campaign Setting” issue that was bedeviling TSR; the variant rules at the edges of their games were creating independent game networks despite the shared DNA of the core. And we knew that inside every one of those companies they were seeing the same financial information we were seeing: Each new release was selling fewer and fewer copies, and in response, the companies were increasing the pace of releases trying to sustain planned revenues by volume of titles, not by volume of units. And it was killing everyone.

Our analysis lead us to the conclusion that in order to escape this trap, D&D at least had to try and unify its player community around one set of universally acceptable rules. And we had to cut back drastically on the number of different books we were publishing to focus spending on individual titles to drive up profitability. It was literally better to sell 7 copies of one book vs. 5 copies of two different books due to the economies of scale involved.

We hooked that train up to the engine of the Open Gaming License to help spur consolidation of game systems towards a common core, and to enable publishers who wanted to just make a great world or a cool sourcebook to do so without having to first make their own homebrew RPG (and thus fragment the market), and watched the resulting highly entertaining explosion in creativity and revenues in the market starting in 2000.

If you take that list of companies that were active at GenCon in 1994, you have to add all sorts of new names by the time you get to the GenCons of 2001/2: Alderac Entertainment Group, Decipher, Eden Studios, Fantasy Flight Games, Goodman Games, Green Ronin, Guardians of Order, Holistic Design, Kenzer & Co, Malhavoc Press, Mongoose, Necromancer, Pagan Publishing, Pinnacle Entertainment Group, and a host of others that I’m certainly omitting unintentionally. Of course many of these companies were active prior to the OGL/D20 era and many never published D20 products but they all benefited from the resurgence of D&D.

Add to that a number of “indie” RPG companies that were supporting one or two full time designer/publishers like Ron Edwards, Luke Crane, and Vince Baker. The indy RPG segment was getting good advice and learning how to be financially viable via the exchanges on the Forge and other sites dedicated to small press publishing – work that continues to today and has helped create a large number of independently published small TRPGs exploring niches that larger mass-market TRPGs would never have attempted.

Feeding all that activity was an even larger cadre of freelancers than had been in place in the 1990s – the D20 System enabled folks who would never otherwise have tried their hand at commercial design to get paid for their ideas, who joined the pre-existing ranks of freelance creative people working with the major publishers.

Let’s set the high-water mark of the TRPG industry as GenCon 2003, where Wizards released the 3.5 edition of D&D. Shortly thereafter the dominoes started to fall: Incompatibilities between 3.0 and 3.5 meant that a lot of inventory on store shelves became “obsolete” in the minds of customers, resulting in a huge drop in sales and an effort by the retailers to clear that inventory at deep discounts. With the drop in sales came a drop in orders for new products – retailers got skittish about investing more money into a market that was causing them massive headaches.

It’s possible that things could have found a natural bottom at this juncture, and that the market could have rebuilt itself on the 3.5 platform.

Unfortunately, it was never going to get that chance.

At the end of 2004, Blizzard released World of Warcraft. The MMO market which had been considered an interesting curiosity by the tabletop RPG market suddenly exploded. Whereas the previously most successful game (EverQuest) had attracted about 400,000 concurrent paying accounts at the height of its success, World of Warcraft exceeded a million players within 12 months. By the end of 2007, it had more than 5 million players in the US and Europe. An entire new market grew up around World of Warcraft as other companies rushed into the space, quickly creating offerings outside of the basic fantasy of Warcraft, including superheroes, science fiction, cyberpunk, and military history: the very foundations of the TRPG market.

Worse (for the TRPG business) the MMOs also went after young children and engaged them in ways that TRPGs weren’t. Club Penguin, in particular, was so good at getting young kids into its game that Disney bought it for $700 million, and it was reported to have more than 30 million kids playing it.

Almost overnight the TRPG industry suffered two quick body-blows. A large number of people within its network externality left their TRPG groups to focus on MMOs. And instead of receiving the benefits of an acquisition engine generating new players every year, young kids got diverted into MMOs at an age earlier than any suitable TRPG offering, likely establishing a play pattern they’ll keep through to adulthood.

The effects on the TRPG market are now quite visible. At GenCon 2011, the number of companies that were paying full time salaries for TRPG game designer/developers was reduced to a short list: Alderac Entertainment, Kenzer & Co., Fantasy Flight Games, Margaret Weiss Productions, Mongoose, Palladium, Paizo, Steve Jackson Games, White Wolf, Wizards of the Coast, and one or two smaller “indy” publishers. Missing from that list are many of the successful companies that were thriving in 1994 and 2001/2 – lost to the industry as well are the freelancer jobs that those companies used to sustain.

Some of those companies continue to publish as secondary sources of income for their owners: Green Ronin and Pinnacle Entertainment Group are great examples of this phenomenon. But that seems to me to be a very precarious place to operate - the margin for error (or accident) is razor thin.

And the contraction is continuing. Wizards of the Coast has laid off a number of designers, as has White Wolf. Hero Games announced that it is ceasing to operate with a full-time staff. Problems at Catalyst indicate that it may be a while before they’re able to sustain the TRPG businesses they inherited from FASA.

So we see the causes: Rise of MMOs, collapse of retailing, and consolidation of distribution. And we see the effects – loss of jobs, shuttering of companies, and virtually no new startup publishers in the space with a mass audience.

Where Does This End?

My opinion is that the hobby gaming industry is going to transform into a very small niche business. It will cater primarily to an aging group of players who have made TRPGs their lifetime hobbies. As those players age, they’ll need less and less support in the form of commercially produced products. They will instead seek out community support tools to help them remain in touch with their hobby even as the social network they’re directly connected to becomes ever more frayed.

In the Escapist articles I am quoted as saying that this process will be like the evolution of the model train hobby. What I could have been more clear about was that my belief in this transformation is driven not by escalating costs (as in the case with model trains) but instead by the lack of an effective acquisition engine to drive new players into the TRPG hobby, and by the continued subtraction from the TRPG social network caused by MMOs.

As neither of these problems is structural to the TRPG industry, and are both driven by external factors, there’s very little that can be done to counter them directly.

Future Paths

Digital


The first thing that a lot of folks ask for when engaged about the future of the hobby is a virtual table top. It seems kind of obvious – if MMOs are breaking the social network of TRPGs then the way to fight back is to take the TRPG to the MMO’s territory and enable distributed on-line play.

The problem is that VTTs exist, and they’re not successful. If you give people the choice between a VTT and an MMO, they pick the MMO. The VTT doesn’t solve the real problem that is that the MMO experience is simply better for a significant portion of the former TRPG social network. My opinion is that a successful and widely used VTT will remain an elusive mirage despite how much effort is poured into developing them.

That is not to say that there’s no role for digital in the future of the TRPG. Transforming the delivery mechanism of TRPGs into digital products is, I think, the likely evolutionary path. And I’m not talking about just PDFs of printed books – I’m talking about the idea of making a digital product that takes advantage of all that implies to deliver an improved tabletop experience using iPad-type technology.

Conversion to Family Games

I define a Hobby Game as one where (at least one person) spends more time preparing to play the game than actually playing it. For TRPGs that is usually the GM, but often it is players as well. This “out of game time” may be the biggest obstacle to overcome to keeping the TRPG platform competitive.

I think that commercially successful TRPGs of the future will be constructed more like a family game – something that can be unpacked, learned quickly, and played with little prep work. These games will give people a lot of the same joy of “roleplaying” and narrative control that they get from today’s Hobby Game TRPGs but with a fraction of the time investment. Wizards is already experimenting with this format, as is Fantasy Flight Games. It seems like a good bet that there is a substantially profitable business down this line of evolution.

Pathfinder

I will end this essay by talking a bit about Pathfinder and it’s role in the market.

One of the goals of the OGL and the D20 project was to ensure that no single company would ever have the ability to kill Dungeons & Dragons. TSR almost did so; near the end of its existence it had pledged the copyrights and trademarks of the D&D franchise as security against loans it could not afford to repay. Had TSR gone into bankruptcy it is likely that for at least some time, and possibly an extremely lengthy period, nobody would have had the right to publish using that IP while the bankers fought over the carcass of TSR.

The OGL/D20 project also ensured that a version of D&D would exist as of the 3rd Edition version no matter what future incarnation of D&D might be developed. Future versions of D&D would be benchmarked against that milestone, and if the market decided they did not want to switch to the new version, unlike in previous iterations where all commercial support for the previous version would be terminated, the market would be able to keep supporting the version that they preferred. This raises a high bar to future versions of D&D – you have to be so much better than the 3e game that people will voluntarily switch platforms.

Pathfinder has (obviously) become the game that represents that 3rd Edition milestone in the minds of the majority of the players, and is benefiting from the fact that it seems the number of voluntary switches to 4e was less than Wizards had hoped.

Any time a market contracts, a phenomenon is observed which is called a “flight to quality”. This means that the people who remain in a contracting market tend to concentrate their business around the most successful parts of the market, hoping that they’ll be able to ride out the collapse and make it to a future expansionary period. This is what is happening right now with Pathfinder. The social network that was coalesced by the D20 System has been inherited by Pathfinder. Even as the rest of the market is getting smaller, Pathfinder is getting bigger because its attracting all the people who remain interested in the TRPG format.

Paizo, for its part, is still trying to re-start the acquisition engine. The Beginner Box it released this year is the best intro product that the TRPG market has seen in well over a decade (maybe 2 decades). I’m certain that there are kids who got it for Christmas and are right now getting their first taste of the TRPG experience. Hopefully those kids will decide to spend at least a part of their gaming time around the tabletop rather than the MMO virtual worlds. Only time will tell.

My instinct is that Pathfinder will be the lifeboat that the long-term hobbyists will use to keep the social network from fraying past the point of no return. There’s enough people playing it and interacting both locally and virtually that I think it has the momentum it needs to sustain itself even if a total worst case scenario would unfold (Barnes & Noble also fails, and the full line hobby game store ceases to exist). Paizo is doing the right things in making its community and its market one unified whole, which is a great insurance policy against forces beyond its control.

Where Goes D&D?

I’d like to expound on this topic in more detail. Unfortunately, I’m privy to confidential information that makes that impossible at this time. I see the same things you all see – Monte Cook going back to Wizards of the Coast and a general recognition in the market that 4th Edition was not commercially successful. I think that in 2012 I’ll have a lot more to say about D&D, but that will have to wait for a future column. For now I’ll just end by saying that I hope with all my heart that the folks at Wizards of the Coast figure out how to get that franchise righted and back on track, because it would be good for the hobby in general for D&D to become a strong brand again.

--RSD / Atlanta, December 2011
 

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Ryan S. Dancey

Ryan S. Dancey

OGL Architect

Matt James

Game Developer
The text of the rules are not that easy to protect. My lawyer (@GSLLC) has a column on my site called Protection from Chaos (get it, law vs. chaos? haha). He's an IP attorney and a big D&D advocate. He also runs the DC area convention called synDCon. He's a bit of crusader against people who give false interpretations of the law as it pertains to copyright, trademarks, and patents when they don't have an education in law (re: Law Degree).

Loremaster - Protection from Chaos
 

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Klaus

First Post
The text of the rules are not that easy to protect. My lawyer (@GSLLC) has a column on my site called Protection from Chaos (get it, law vs. chaos? haha). He's an IP attorney and a big D&D advocate. He also runs the DC area convention called synDCon. He's a bit of crusader against people who give false interpretations of the law as it pertains to copyright, trademarks, and patents when they don't have an education in law (re: Law Degree).

Loremaster - Protection from Chaos
"Protection from Chaos"?

Your lawyer deserves XP.
 

Frylock

Explorer
"Protection from Chaos"?

Your lawyer deserves XP.

I'm a 23rd-level attorney.

While imperfect, the general rule is, "Fluff is protectable, and crunch is not." Every case turns on its own facts, though, so either consult an attorney or steer clear of controversy.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
On the other hand, you've just described an area of 300 thousand people with ONLY 4 game stores. How many of those 4 stores sprung up in the last 5 years,
None. All are at least ten years old; in that time the only change is that one moved from one part of town to another (following the population to a faster-developing area). About ten years ago is when the most recent of the four opened. There was more turnover in the 90's - the market here seems able to support about 4 of these stores but it took quite a lot of trial and error to determine which 4.
and how much of a percentage of RPG display is devoted in those stores compared to comics and collectibles?
Not much, but enough to let even a casual shopper know they are present.
I know that in my area (around 600,000 people), the number of comics and RPG stores has not declined, but it's held steady and not grown at all for the past ten years -- the number of new stores pretty much equals the number of failed stores. :)
OK, so in both our markets the number of stores has not changed in some time. Yet we are being told there has been a large decline in store numbers. Anyone else got any local info - particularly for North America - to lob in here?

Lanefan
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Question: does anyone know if Mike and Monte are going to see this thread? (better yet, if they have been invited to contribute to it?) I ask because before all these sub-conversations broke out there were some very interesting ideas for 5e and a surprising amount of common ground among some of those ideas. I'd hate to see it go to waste. :)

Lanefan
 

eyebeams

Explorer
Not a lawyer, but my semi-educated impression is:

1) Typically, game *rules* are understood not to be protected, but their specific expression/description is. You can describe how to hit a dude in combat, but not using the same description of how to hit a dude from another game, even if the functional aspect (d20+mod vs AC) is the same.

But:

2) Game companies typically threaten action over copyright as part of an omnibus "you violated everything!" claim, as Hasbro did over what was once Scrabulous (where the claim of trademark violation was there, but it *also* claimed copyright violation for scoring and layout of the board). The thin justification for this is an analogy from software, where the claim is that specific numeric values and their interactions are protected. I do not know if this has ever succeeded in any court.

3) Hasbro could probably ruin the average game company even with baseless legal action due to the relative budgets of the parties involved.
 

None. All are at least ten years old; in that time the only change is that one moved from one part of town to another (following the population to a faster-developing area). About ten years ago is when the most recent of the four opened. There was more turnover in the 90's - the market here seems able to support about 4 of these stores but it took quite a lot of trial and error to determine which 4.
Not much, but enough to let even a casual shopper know they are present.
OK, so in both our markets the number of stores has not changed in some time. Yet we are being told there has been a large decline in store numbers. Anyone else got any local info - particularly for North America - to lob in here?

Lanefan

Well, there have been 2 stores in my state for MANY years. Hasn't changed AFAIK since the early 90's at least, maybe longer. These are actual game stores that primarily sell games though. There have been hobby/toy retailers that sold some games that have come and gone. I don't think there are any of those nowadays, but it is hard to say for sure.

Overall the availability of both games and in-store playing space has remained about the same for a good long time.

OTOH I think the general type of gaming that goes on has slowly shifted. There are people RPing obviously, but our local gaming club is quite active and RPGs are now a very small part of what the members do. There are games, but the activity has shifted drastically in the direction of either one-shot games or just playing board games of various types, which are very strong these days. Our local area Con has a good number of RPG tables each year, but 95% of them are filled by either homebrew stuff, indy games, OSR type stuff, etc. I think there were maybe 1 each PF and 4e game scheduled and maybe 2 3.5 games scheduled out of about 40 slots (I could be off a bit but definitely the 'big name' games were not very prominent).

I think people are doing a lot of experimenting, playing a lot of board games, and not doing a lot of classic RPG campaign running. It is still there, but I think that style of gaming is not thriving.
 

Since the topic has mostly turned to VTTs, I thought I would chime in, since I've considered all these issues while designing the Fabletop app.

The biggest issue, IMO, is that the most popular systems are all designed for face-to-face play. Even with all the fancy new tech out there, the "interface" of sitting around a table with real-life friends and a stack of books is vastly different than even the most flexible of graphical user interfaces.

There I have to disagree. Whiteboards in combination with dice-rollers, chat/voice effectively recreates the tabletop experience online. You do the same kind of prep with the same type of materials and manage the game in the same manner.

The tech is additional overhead. Now you have an extra step of having to scan any visual material you want to present. You have to make sure you can connect and all your players. In the early 2000s this was a bit of a pain but the technology has become easier and easier as the years go on.


Consider the idea of the "handout", which is so simple in real life that the name itself tells you what to do: you just hand it out.

But when you're designing the same task for an online medium, you have to deal with a bunch of new, non-trivial issues: what file formats do you support, how to get the file "into" the app, how to deal with large files, are there controls on who gets to see it, where on the screen does it appear, is it movable/resizable, how to make it accessible in later games (or outside the game), and how to quickly teach the users how to do all of the above. Many of the things we take for granted in face-to-face play are like that, and it's even more difficult if you want to ensure a nice, polished experience.

As a programmer I know that these issue are not trivial for the app developer. However the state of the art has advanced to the point where they several good examples of how various VTT features should be implemented. For example a word processor is not a trivial program to develop but the various issues in writing have been hashed to death and there are several well known solutions to each of the various issues.

The nice about VTTs is that they look to the continuing development of whiteboard and collaboration software for further ideas.

Also, even with things like real-time video/audio, roleplaying online often has the "uncanny valley" effect. It might kinda-sorta do the job, but it still doesn't feel right.

For the vast majority interacting through the internet is never their first choice. Internet rather acts as a multiplier increasing the number of social connections we can make and sustain. For gaming this means groups have people move away don't necessarily need to split up. The absent member can use various technologies to link back in and continue to play. If the entire group shift to the point where face to face is impossible then the game can continue on line.

The nice thing about VTTs is that they work in conjunction. It is not like a MMORPG where major elements of tabletop are discarded. Instead groups can freely change how they change how they meet while doing the same work and using the same products.

As for the hobby in general VTTs is not THE answer, it should be viewed as one piece of the puzzle to keep the hobby's social network going. One more thing in addition to home campaign, game conventions, store games, and the rest.

MMOs don't have this issue because they have evolved to the medium's strengths, and they manage to provide what many (arguably most) gamers in the 80's wanted from D&D (hang out, kill monsters, get treasure, level-up, etc). Neverwinter Nights had a lot of promise, but the support for tabletop-style play was minimal and you really had to struggle to play it that way.

With Neverwinter Nights you had to struggle because you had to be a programmer to create useful stuff with the game. If you had all the pieces it was a killer way to run an adventure (which I did several times). Plus it require to learn new techniques of refereeing where the referee was more of a event manager. I found my experience running LARP events extremely useful in running my group through NWN. However the sum of what you had to do run a campaign using NWN was very removed from normal tabletop. VTTs do not share this disadvantage.

As for MMORPGs, they are different form of gaming. At this point they compete with tabletop in the same way other forms of gaming. They are not a substitute. I am not ignoring the impact they had on tabletop but let's face in the decades since the early 70s the number of different forms of gamings have exploded. While the overall population of gamer may have grown there more competing for their time. I strongly that tabletop games should NOT try to BE like other forms of gaming. Instead tabletop should play to it's strengths not matched by the other forms.

So my belief right now is that, if there is a successful online equivalent to TTRPGs, it won't be a conversion of a face-to-face system. It will probably be something different, that plays to the strengths of the online medium while still making imagination an important part of the game.

Between whiteboards, voip, and social network sites we have all the pieces. What needed to make it all come together is somebody with a pre-existing social network to use a VTT. This may be a Google+ app, or Paizo creating something, or Wizards finally completing their setup. My current feeling is that one of major social networking sites will get there first with an app that does what Fantasy Grounds does but using the social network site as the background.

As far as the future of (non-virtual) tabletop gaming, I agree with Mr. Dancey that there is probably a lot of promise in "party style" roleplaying.

All you are going to accomplish is create a new form of gaming. Without the human referee and several other major elements it is no longer tabletop roleplaying. It may be a good strategy for a company to develop in order to survive the changing tastes in gaming. But the try to push as tabletop roleplaying evolved is just going to alienate the existing market and further fracture it like 4e did.

Think about how casual computer games have recently boomed after a long period of dominance by hard core shooters and RTS's. There may be a similar opening waiting to be filled by a simpler RPG with a broader appeal.

One of the reason why we can sell OSR products is because older D&D is a pretty straight forward game to jump into. Plenty of my customer are gamers who like the simplifier approach of older D&D, B/X D&D in particular.

But if anything is to re-invigorate the space, I doubt it will come from an established brand. It will be something unexpected, and probably (hopefully) stretch our current idea of what it means to roleplay. And lead to all kinds of online arguments, of course!

That could be. My opinion is that gaming companies that want large sales need to keep up whatever the current taste in gaming. While SJ Games still releases the occasional GURPS product their current bread and butter is Munchkin. In five years it may be something completely different.

However the industry is not the hobby. Thanks to the OGL (appreciate Ryan Dancey for being a major supporter) the hobby can take care of itself now with popular and classic games. We no longer depend on the marking whims of X companies to play, and publish for the game we like. Plus it means that however shrunken there will still be a market to sell too.

What Ryan doesn't mention is that Model Trains are still a 1.2 billion a year business although it share of the larger toy market is very tiny compared to what it was back in the day.

In our own hobby, hex and counter wargames are still being produced and even had a little resurgence a couple of years ago with the organization of some conventions. Of course it is nothing like it was during the glory days of SPI and Avalon Hill.

This website and forum is primarily about tabletop roleplaying first, not the companies that currently make tabletop roleplaying games, not other forms of gaming (as interesting as they may be). If Wizards decides the "5th edition" of D&D is to be a series of board games like Ravenloft, etc then they are no longer producing tabletop roleplaying games.

So I take a negative view when a columnist comes and say "Oh the game has to change because of X, Y, and Z." It obvious from his comments to John Wick's facebook post, and his columns that where Ryan Dancey is coming from is the survival of the game companies themselves.

My general feeling is, "Fine! you made your case, if a game company want to keep their current level of employees and profitability then the type of games they need to make has to change." But once that happen my interest in those companies ceases because they are no longer making tabletop RPGs.

But I am not interesting playing those games as my primary hobby. I am a tabletop roleplayer. I like playing them, refereeing them, publishing, and writing for them. What I work for is having the largest number of tabletop roleplayers to game with. And if I can't rely on the industry to do it then I will do it myself.
 

Alphastream

Adventurer
Except that with 3.XE and the OGL it's been proven potentially big so trying to disprove by looking toward 3PP GSL support also proves the point.
Can you show me the proof? It's a real question. I'm on board with various groups being interested, or regional interest, but I would like to see real numbers.

The stack of WotC product in my FLGS
We can find a store to paint any picture. I think Shannon Appelcline's 2010 estimates are probably a more likely situation.

Okay, "disliked the d20 boom," liked "Ptolus and Iron Heroes" (Monte Cook and Mike Mearls projects), nothing to say about market leaders like PF and M&M (which are OGL and have vibrant 3PP support), the second of which is from GR which also does many independent projects like Black Company, Dragon Age, etc., you're personally an Admin for the Ashes of Athas 4E D&D campaign . . . I get this feeling we're getting some sense of where 5E might be heading, or definitely not heading, and I appreciate the candor.
If by candor you mean me being honest about how I feel about an industry I care about greatly, always. I'm not a Wizards guy, though I do work for free for AoA and I have had a few articles published. My main claim should be opinionated loudmouth...

Seriously, my questions are honest. I honestly question how much the OGL contributed to 3E, versus how much it cost Wizards in the long run. We can blame them for not jumping in fully, but it isn't clear to me that they should have. They really were in a position where they had to change versions. They had nothing going on at the end of 3E and the edition was about to die. While we all know they didn't do the best job of selling 4E, it still did very well. Was the main issue that they could never turn off the old game because of the OGL? If so, why would they want a new OGL to pin them into never turning off 4E? What is the benefit? Can we give it any rough numbers?

If the OGL was all about selling core books, I think it is likely 4E sold more core books than 3E did. Factor in the loss of revenue to Pathfinder and other OGL 3E stuff during the 4E timeframe and it has to be revenue negative. If the OGL was about creating a big industry, we saw as much boom as bust. If as Ryan said the OGL was about making it so everyone played one version of D&D, that didn't work at all - it did the opposite. If it was about creating freelancers... ok, I can buy that one, though DDI is doing that as well. Potentially the OGL can help Wizards focus on one area and get 3PPs to provide others (like adventures), but I think that also creates long-term problems of potentially losing out on design space you would grow to a few years later. I also don't think Wizards wants to shrink in size and work largely through 3PPs beyond core stuff, as seems to have been part of the original plan. Have someone else write Greyhawk, FR, Dark Sun? I think it would hurt in the long run or require costly oversight that would make any overall benefit negligible.

I understand the benefits of open source in software (while being aware how it has failed many companies). I'm a big fan of how Eclipse Phase uses open source. Those guys seed their own torrents and sell hackable versions of their awesome game, but it makes sense for them. The same thing would not make sense for Wizards. I similarly don't see how the OGL makes sense long term. I welcome feedback on how it could make sense, particularly any financial insight.
 

Mark CMG

Creative Mountain Games
Can you show me the proof?


I'd suggest using a search engine rather than taking my word for it. Look for information on the success of each and the number of 3PP supporters of each.


We can find a store to paint any picture. I think Shannon Appelcline's 2010 estimates are probably a more likely situation.


Again, don't take my word, check the number of stores during each era and make a few calls around to see who has what on hand.


If by candor you mean me being honest about how I feel about an industry I care about greatly, always. I'm not a Wizards guy, though I do work for free for AoA and I have had a few articles published. My main claim should be opinionated loudmouth...


Yet I never see you at the meetings . . . :D



Seriously, my questions are honest.


And, again, you don't need me to tell you twice what I think nor to take my word on anything. Search around to get information from folks like RyanD and see how long 3.XE held the top of the market all to itself with little competition relative to 4E's situation. Check into the old OGL lists to see when WotC began backing off their support of the OGL and look into the market reaction at the time. Check into the size of the Organized Play communities supporting each. Check into the number of retail stores during each period. Check back to discover how long 3.XE and 4.XE (we'll include Essentials) sold before WotC began slowing their production schedule and/or pulling back release information from cancelled products from places like Amazon, indicating an end to the edition cycle. If your opinion after reviewing such things is that the OGL was bad, I doubt I can do anything to persuade you otherwise. But you don't need me to check on these things for yourself and come to an informed opinion.
 
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