4 Hours w/ RSD - Escapist Bonus Column

As many of you know, the Escapist has recently run a 3-part series on the past, current and future of Dungeons & Dragons. The ENWorld coverage begins here. I contributed some insights to that column and wanted to take this opportunity to expand and clarify some of my thoughts on this topic. Who Is This Guy Anyway? I [Ryan Dancey] have been involved on the business side of hobby game...

As many of you know, the Escapist has recently run a 3-part series on the past, current and future of Dungeons & Dragons. The ENWorld coverage begins here.

I contributed some insights to that column and wanted to take this opportunity to expand and clarify some of my thoughts on this topic.

GenCon2009-LisaStevens-OVC0U8.jpg

Who Is This Guy Anyway?

I [Ryan Dancey] have been involved on the business side of hobby game publishing since 1993, when I operated one of the first on-line/mail order hobby game stores, RPG International. It was through my work at RPG International that I met the team at Alderac Entertainment Group with whom I co-created the Legend of the Five Rings intellectual property, eventually spinning it out into a stand-alone company called Five Rings Publishing Group which was acquired by Wizards of the Coast in 1997 as a part of the process whereby Wizards also acquired TSR. I was at Wizards, working as a brand manager on trading card games and eventually leading the brand and business unit for Dungeons & Dragons until early in 2001 when I left to found a startup providing organized play services to 3rd party game companies, wound that down in 2003 and worked as a consultant until 2007 when I became the Chief Marketing Officer of CCP. Currently I’m the CEO of Goblinworks, a startup company developing a next-generation fantasy MMO.

I give that background (again for those of you who read the first column in this series; sorry for the repetition) just to establish the fact that I’ve been watching this industry closely for a very long time and feel I’ve got some insights worth sharing.

The Tabletop Roleplaying Game Hobby Is Contracting

Let me begin with a few simple statistics.

In 1995, when I was writing the business plan for the Legend of the Five Rings CCG, I assumed, based on the conventional wisdom at the time, that there were approximately 5,000 full line hobby gaming stores in the North American market. After arriving at Wizards of the Coast in 1997, I was surprised to discover that Wizards had been able to identify (after extensive work) only about 2,500 stores. In addition, there were about 2,500-3,000 mass-market book stores that sold some hobby gaming products; mostly TRPGs, and mostly just D&D.

Today, the best data I have been able to assemble leads me to believe that there are less than 1,000 full line hobby gaming stores left, and there may be as few as 500.

Of those mass-market bookstores, B. Dalton is gone. Waldenbooks is gone. Borders is going. Barnes & Nobel is not healthy. Today, there are only about 1,000 mass-market bookstores left (717 are Barnes & Nobel stores). That is meaningful because historically 50% of the D&D business was sold via mass-market bookstores and the loss of those stores has directly impacted D&D (and other TRPGs) significantly.

In 1994, when I attended my first GenCon, the list of exhibitors at the show included many companies that earned most (or all) of their income from selling tabletop RPGs, and who employed one or more full time TRPG designer/developers: Atlas Games, Chaosium, Dream Pod Nine, FASA, Game Designers Workshop, Heartbreaker, Hero Games, Iron Crown Enterprises, Mayfair, Palladium, R. Talsorian, Steve Jackson Games, TSR, West End Games, White Wolf, and I’m sure there’s others I’ve regretfully omitted.

In addition to those companies there was another constellation of small publishers consisting of one or two people trying to make a start in the business, working part time as TRPG designer/publishers, and buzzing around all these companies were dozens (maybe as many as a hundred) freelancers who made all or a significant part of their incomes from TRPG design work.

It’s notable that many in the industry saw the period from 1994-1999 as being fairly bad for TRPGs. The twin rise of collectible card games and the Games Workshop hobby appeared to be draining the TRPG segment of designers and of revenue. The most obvious sign of this problem was the failure of TSR’s business, leading to its acquisition by Wizards of the Coast in 1997.

I would argue that the segment actually brought on most of its woes by simply producing too much product. The proliferation of games, game worlds, and “house systems” so fragmented the market that despite indications that overall revenue remained fairly constant for TRPGs as a segment, the income earned per product and per company became so sub-divided that many (both products & companies) became unprofitable.

A second major factor at work was the consolidation of the distribution tier. When I was selling Legend of the Five Rings in 1996, we had an initial list of North American distributors of about 50. By the end of the decade, that list had shrunk to about a dozen. In fact, virtually every distributor in the market was either sold or closed between 1990 and 1999 – the people who had created the distribution network for TRPGs cashed out to the people who rebuilt it for the CCG business.

This consolidation had an unexpected effect on the TRPG publishers. Every distributor prior to the late 1990s had engaged in a practice whereby they ordered product from TRPG publishers in bulk, and held the inventory in their warehouses to fulfill retailer orders as needed. The standard industry terms were for the distributors to pay the publishers 30 days after receipt of the products. This created cashflow that sustained the publishers – they did not have to wait for every book they printed to sell, they could get the money immediately and transfer the risk of slow sales to the distribution tier. And in addition, every distributor tended to order about 10% more than they could realistically sell, as a hedge against as surprise hit. When the distribution tier consolidated, the publishers suddenly lost tremendous volume in terms of sales and cash. That 10%, multiplied by 50 distributors, was a lot of books. And the distributors that were left were run with much tighter financial policies, leading many to cease pre-paying for inventory and instead asking to hold it “on consignment” – that is, they wanted to pay for the product as they sold it, transferring the risk back to the publishers.

When I took control of the brand & business unit for TRPGs at Wizards of the Coast at the end of 1997, I asked Lisa Stevens to do a market research project to figure out what had really happened in the history of the industry and how we had (collectively) gotten ourselves into the deep hole we found ourselves in.

There were two basic answers revealed by her research.

The first was that the products the industry was producing had become too costly. The boxed set, in particular, was a huge problem. The cost of a boxed set vs. a hardcover book was often a multiple, rather than a percentage. The cost of a hardcover vs. a softcover book was also substantial. In fact, we found several high profile D&D products that were costing the company more to make than the suggested retail price of those products! This issue was endemic throughout the industry, since many publishers assumed they had to “keep up” with TSR in order to be competitive. But TSR wasn’t acting rationally, and had set its suggested retail prices based on its opinion of what the market would pay, not based on what they needed to charge in order to make a profit on the things they were publishing.

In this field, we often use a shorthand pricing system called the “Rule of 5”. Under this rule, you determine the suggested price of a product by multiplying the cost of the product by 5. Factoring in the 3-tier distribution system the industry uses, the result is that the final suggested retail price produces the following divisions:

• 20%: Cost of Goods (the cost of the production of the product, plus the wages paid to people who worked on it and any licenses or royalties)
• 20%: Gross Profit (that is, profit before subtracting all operational costs like salaries, marketing, rent, etc.) to the Publisher
• 20%: Distributor Margin (the gross profit the Distributor earns)
• 40%: Retailer Margin (the gross profit the Retailer earns)

This means that every $1 of cost increases the suggested retail price by $5. Some of the things TSR was doing were adding $10 to the cost of its products – which should have added $50 to the suggested retail prices – easily pushing many of those products into the $100 range. Instead, TSR was just losing money every time it sold one of these products. And the people who made those products never knew, because TSR’s dysfunctional management system hid that information from them. It was not until they got to Wizards of the Coast and had a chance to see the “real numbers” that they realized what had been happening.

The second issue that Lisa’s data revealed led us to our conceptual breakthrough about the business of TRPGs that shaped every decision we made when bringing the 3rd Edition of D&D to the market.

We realized that TRPGs fall into a special class of products & services that generate network effects. In our case, the effect that had the most impact was the concept of the network externality. For TRPGs, the “true value” of the product is not in the book/box that you buy. It is in the network of social connections that you share which enable you to play the game. Without that social network, the game’s value is massively reduced (it becomes literature, and there’s a small market for people who like to just read and never play TRPG content).

We began to view the market not as a series of product pyramids (a core book at the top, and an ever-broadening base of support materials produced over time), but instead as a series of human webs that overlapped and interconnected. Where those webs were strong, the products flourished. Where they were weak, the products failed. The limiting factor to the growth and strength of the TRPG market was not retail stores or shelf space, it was human brains within which these games could interconnect.

The more segmented those brains became, the weaker the overall social network was. Every new game system, and every new variant to those systems, subdivided that network further, making it weaker. Between 1993 and 1999, the social network of the TRPG players had become seriously frayed. Even if you just looked at the network of Dungeons & Dragons players you could see this effect: People self-segmented into groups playing Basic D&D, 1st Edition, 2nd Edition, and within 2nd Edition into various Campaign Settings that had become their own game variants. The effect on the market was that it became increasingly hard to make and sell something that had enough players in common that it would earn back its costs of development and production.

We looked around the industry and saw the same problem at virtually every company that had become successful: White Wolf had 5 World of Darkness games which were all slightly different, surrounded by a more diffuse constellation of games somewhat related to the Storyteller system but designed to be mutually incompatible. FASA had 4 games, none of which shared anything in common. Palladium & Steve Jackson Games both had “house systems” that they tried to use across their entire product lines, but they had ended up with the “Campaign Setting” issue that was bedeviling TSR; the variant rules at the edges of their games were creating independent game networks despite the shared DNA of the core. And we knew that inside every one of those companies they were seeing the same financial information we were seeing: Each new release was selling fewer and fewer copies, and in response, the companies were increasing the pace of releases trying to sustain planned revenues by volume of titles, not by volume of units. And it was killing everyone.

Our analysis lead us to the conclusion that in order to escape this trap, D&D at least had to try and unify its player community around one set of universally acceptable rules. And we had to cut back drastically on the number of different books we were publishing to focus spending on individual titles to drive up profitability. It was literally better to sell 7 copies of one book vs. 5 copies of two different books due to the economies of scale involved.

We hooked that train up to the engine of the Open Gaming License to help spur consolidation of game systems towards a common core, and to enable publishers who wanted to just make a great world or a cool sourcebook to do so without having to first make their own homebrew RPG (and thus fragment the market), and watched the resulting highly entertaining explosion in creativity and revenues in the market starting in 2000.

If you take that list of companies that were active at GenCon in 1994, you have to add all sorts of new names by the time you get to the GenCons of 2001/2: Alderac Entertainment Group, Decipher, Eden Studios, Fantasy Flight Games, Goodman Games, Green Ronin, Guardians of Order, Holistic Design, Kenzer & Co, Malhavoc Press, Mongoose, Necromancer, Pagan Publishing, Pinnacle Entertainment Group, and a host of others that I’m certainly omitting unintentionally. Of course many of these companies were active prior to the OGL/D20 era and many never published D20 products but they all benefited from the resurgence of D&D.

Add to that a number of “indie” RPG companies that were supporting one or two full time designer/publishers like Ron Edwards, Luke Crane, and Vince Baker. The indy RPG segment was getting good advice and learning how to be financially viable via the exchanges on the Forge and other sites dedicated to small press publishing – work that continues to today and has helped create a large number of independently published small TRPGs exploring niches that larger mass-market TRPGs would never have attempted.

Feeding all that activity was an even larger cadre of freelancers than had been in place in the 1990s – the D20 System enabled folks who would never otherwise have tried their hand at commercial design to get paid for their ideas, who joined the pre-existing ranks of freelance creative people working with the major publishers.

Let’s set the high-water mark of the TRPG industry as GenCon 2003, where Wizards released the 3.5 edition of D&D. Shortly thereafter the dominoes started to fall: Incompatibilities between 3.0 and 3.5 meant that a lot of inventory on store shelves became “obsolete” in the minds of customers, resulting in a huge drop in sales and an effort by the retailers to clear that inventory at deep discounts. With the drop in sales came a drop in orders for new products – retailers got skittish about investing more money into a market that was causing them massive headaches.

It’s possible that things could have found a natural bottom at this juncture, and that the market could have rebuilt itself on the 3.5 platform.

Unfortunately, it was never going to get that chance.

At the end of 2004, Blizzard released World of Warcraft. The MMO market which had been considered an interesting curiosity by the tabletop RPG market suddenly exploded. Whereas the previously most successful game (EverQuest) had attracted about 400,000 concurrent paying accounts at the height of its success, World of Warcraft exceeded a million players within 12 months. By the end of 2007, it had more than 5 million players in the US and Europe. An entire new market grew up around World of Warcraft as other companies rushed into the space, quickly creating offerings outside of the basic fantasy of Warcraft, including superheroes, science fiction, cyberpunk, and military history: the very foundations of the TRPG market.

Worse (for the TRPG business) the MMOs also went after young children and engaged them in ways that TRPGs weren’t. Club Penguin, in particular, was so good at getting young kids into its game that Disney bought it for $700 million, and it was reported to have more than 30 million kids playing it.

Almost overnight the TRPG industry suffered two quick body-blows. A large number of people within its network externality left their TRPG groups to focus on MMOs. And instead of receiving the benefits of an acquisition engine generating new players every year, young kids got diverted into MMOs at an age earlier than any suitable TRPG offering, likely establishing a play pattern they’ll keep through to adulthood.

The effects on the TRPG market are now quite visible. At GenCon 2011, the number of companies that were paying full time salaries for TRPG game designer/developers was reduced to a short list: Alderac Entertainment, Kenzer & Co., Fantasy Flight Games, Margaret Weiss Productions, Mongoose, Palladium, Paizo, Steve Jackson Games, White Wolf, Wizards of the Coast, and one or two smaller “indy” publishers. Missing from that list are many of the successful companies that were thriving in 1994 and 2001/2 – lost to the industry as well are the freelancer jobs that those companies used to sustain.

Some of those companies continue to publish as secondary sources of income for their owners: Green Ronin and Pinnacle Entertainment Group are great examples of this phenomenon. But that seems to me to be a very precarious place to operate - the margin for error (or accident) is razor thin.

And the contraction is continuing. Wizards of the Coast has laid off a number of designers, as has White Wolf. Hero Games announced that it is ceasing to operate with a full-time staff. Problems at Catalyst indicate that it may be a while before they’re able to sustain the TRPG businesses they inherited from FASA.

So we see the causes: Rise of MMOs, collapse of retailing, and consolidation of distribution. And we see the effects – loss of jobs, shuttering of companies, and virtually no new startup publishers in the space with a mass audience.

Where Does This End?

My opinion is that the hobby gaming industry is going to transform into a very small niche business. It will cater primarily to an aging group of players who have made TRPGs their lifetime hobbies. As those players age, they’ll need less and less support in the form of commercially produced products. They will instead seek out community support tools to help them remain in touch with their hobby even as the social network they’re directly connected to becomes ever more frayed.

In the Escapist articles I am quoted as saying that this process will be like the evolution of the model train hobby. What I could have been more clear about was that my belief in this transformation is driven not by escalating costs (as in the case with model trains) but instead by the lack of an effective acquisition engine to drive new players into the TRPG hobby, and by the continued subtraction from the TRPG social network caused by MMOs.

As neither of these problems is structural to the TRPG industry, and are both driven by external factors, there’s very little that can be done to counter them directly.

Future Paths

Digital


The first thing that a lot of folks ask for when engaged about the future of the hobby is a virtual table top. It seems kind of obvious – if MMOs are breaking the social network of TRPGs then the way to fight back is to take the TRPG to the MMO’s territory and enable distributed on-line play.

The problem is that VTTs exist, and they’re not successful. If you give people the choice between a VTT and an MMO, they pick the MMO. The VTT doesn’t solve the real problem that is that the MMO experience is simply better for a significant portion of the former TRPG social network. My opinion is that a successful and widely used VTT will remain an elusive mirage despite how much effort is poured into developing them.

That is not to say that there’s no role for digital in the future of the TRPG. Transforming the delivery mechanism of TRPGs into digital products is, I think, the likely evolutionary path. And I’m not talking about just PDFs of printed books – I’m talking about the idea of making a digital product that takes advantage of all that implies to deliver an improved tabletop experience using iPad-type technology.

Conversion to Family Games

I define a Hobby Game as one where (at least one person) spends more time preparing to play the game than actually playing it. For TRPGs that is usually the GM, but often it is players as well. This “out of game time” may be the biggest obstacle to overcome to keeping the TRPG platform competitive.

I think that commercially successful TRPGs of the future will be constructed more like a family game – something that can be unpacked, learned quickly, and played with little prep work. These games will give people a lot of the same joy of “roleplaying” and narrative control that they get from today’s Hobby Game TRPGs but with a fraction of the time investment. Wizards is already experimenting with this format, as is Fantasy Flight Games. It seems like a good bet that there is a substantially profitable business down this line of evolution.

Pathfinder

I will end this essay by talking a bit about Pathfinder and it’s role in the market.

One of the goals of the OGL and the D20 project was to ensure that no single company would ever have the ability to kill Dungeons & Dragons. TSR almost did so; near the end of its existence it had pledged the copyrights and trademarks of the D&D franchise as security against loans it could not afford to repay. Had TSR gone into bankruptcy it is likely that for at least some time, and possibly an extremely lengthy period, nobody would have had the right to publish using that IP while the bankers fought over the carcass of TSR.

The OGL/D20 project also ensured that a version of D&D would exist as of the 3rd Edition version no matter what future incarnation of D&D might be developed. Future versions of D&D would be benchmarked against that milestone, and if the market decided they did not want to switch to the new version, unlike in previous iterations where all commercial support for the previous version would be terminated, the market would be able to keep supporting the version that they preferred. This raises a high bar to future versions of D&D – you have to be so much better than the 3e game that people will voluntarily switch platforms.

Pathfinder has (obviously) become the game that represents that 3rd Edition milestone in the minds of the majority of the players, and is benefiting from the fact that it seems the number of voluntary switches to 4e was less than Wizards had hoped.

Any time a market contracts, a phenomenon is observed which is called a “flight to quality”. This means that the people who remain in a contracting market tend to concentrate their business around the most successful parts of the market, hoping that they’ll be able to ride out the collapse and make it to a future expansionary period. This is what is happening right now with Pathfinder. The social network that was coalesced by the D20 System has been inherited by Pathfinder. Even as the rest of the market is getting smaller, Pathfinder is getting bigger because its attracting all the people who remain interested in the TRPG format.

Paizo, for its part, is still trying to re-start the acquisition engine. The Beginner Box it released this year is the best intro product that the TRPG market has seen in well over a decade (maybe 2 decades). I’m certain that there are kids who got it for Christmas and are right now getting their first taste of the TRPG experience. Hopefully those kids will decide to spend at least a part of their gaming time around the tabletop rather than the MMO virtual worlds. Only time will tell.

My instinct is that Pathfinder will be the lifeboat that the long-term hobbyists will use to keep the social network from fraying past the point of no return. There’s enough people playing it and interacting both locally and virtually that I think it has the momentum it needs to sustain itself even if a total worst case scenario would unfold (Barnes & Noble also fails, and the full line hobby game store ceases to exist). Paizo is doing the right things in making its community and its market one unified whole, which is a great insurance policy against forces beyond its control.

Where Goes D&D?

I’d like to expound on this topic in more detail. Unfortunately, I’m privy to confidential information that makes that impossible at this time. I see the same things you all see – Monte Cook going back to Wizards of the Coast and a general recognition in the market that 4th Edition was not commercially successful. I think that in 2012 I’ll have a lot more to say about D&D, but that will have to wait for a future column. For now I’ll just end by saying that I hope with all my heart that the folks at Wizards of the Coast figure out how to get that franchise righted and back on track, because it would be good for the hobby in general for D&D to become a strong brand again.

--RSD / Atlanta, December 2011
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Ryan S. Dancey

Ryan S. Dancey

OGL Architect

joelesko

Explorer
There I have to disagree. Whiteboards in combination with dice-rollers, chat/voice effectively recreates the tabletop experience online.

My comments might have sounded like I was anti-VTT. Obviously, as someone who just released a VTT, I'm not. =)

I think roleplaying can be done online, and in a lot of cases, better than real life. I just disagree with the idea that the Stack-o-Books style of gaming will ever be a good fit for the online medium. Maybe it's a fine stopgap for existing gamers who are willing to make the conceptual leap, but I don't see it as a way to revitalize the hobby as some people seem to be saying.

My guess is that 10 years from now, the most popular solution will look more like an online game with role-playing capabilities, than an app that tries to translate the current tabletop scene.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Erudite Frog

First Post
I'd suggest using a search engine rather than taking my word for it. Look for information on the success of each and the number of 3PP supporters of each.


Again, don't take my word, check the number of stores during each era and make a few calls around to see who has what on hand.


Yet I never see you at the meetings . . . :D



And, again, you don't need me to tell you twice what I think nor to take my word on anything. Search around to get information from folks like RyanD and see how long 3.XE held the top of the market all to itself with little competition relative to 4E's situation. Check into the old OGL lists to see when WotC began backing off their support of the OGL and look into the market reaction at the time. Check into the size of the Organized Play communities supporting each. Check into the number of retail stores during each period. Check back to discover how long 3.XE and 4.XE (we'll include Essentials) sold before WotC began slowing their production schedule and/or pulling back release information from cancelled products from places like Amazon, indicating an end to the edition cycle. If your opinion after reviewing such things is that the OGL was bad, I doubt I can do anything to persuade you otherwise. But you don't need me to check on these things for yourself and come to an informed opinion.

Thats really diengenuous. You originally made the claim and now your telling alphastream to do a search to prove your own claim for you.
RyanD also isnt the best unbias person to ask for data. hes already proven his bias. By his account, wotc should have died in a death-spiral a couple years back.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Question: does anyone know if Mike and Monte are going to see this thread? (better yet, if they have been invited to contribute to it?) I ask because before all these sub-conversations broke out there were some very interesting ideas for 5e and a surprising amount of common ground among some of those ideas. I'd hate to see it go to waste. :)

Lanefan

You could always ping [MENTION=56746]mudbunny[/MENTION] to include it in his regular report to WotC.

(Though, in this particular thread, you might want to filter out some of the more relevant posts...there is some fairly messy stuff in here as well).
 

Hussar

Legend
Another thought occurred to me regarding the number of gaming stores in America. From Ryan's comments, we have a situation with a presumption of 5000 stores before the 90's, in the mid-90's where we have about 2500 gaming stores. By the late oughts, we have around 5-700. Wow, that's a big drop.

However, like many of these numbers, they're only snapshots. It's really, really difficult to extrapolate any real interpretation from these. Let's put things in context for a moment.

Take the 5000 number. Where did that come from? I'm going to take a stab and guess TSR. Yeah, there's a credible source. :/ Considering how little market research was done before WOTC did any, it's pretty safe to say that any numbers were of the "throw a dart at the board" variety.

2500 gaming stores in the mid-90's. Ok. So, during the largest boom in the American economy in the 20th century, we have lots of gaming stores and this drops to (for ease of typing) 500 in the late oughts where we have one of the worst economic downturns in decades. The thing to compare immediately would be, how do other brick and mortar retail specialty stores compare?

I mean, does anyone actually think that there should have been growth in brick and mortar specialty retail stores in the last ten years? Between a garbage economy and the HUGE growth of online retail, every single brick and mortar store type is having problems.

Let's also not forget something too. How many of those gaming stores in the 90's were being floated by CCG's? The Magic and Pokedollars that were flowing in were keeping lots of people pretty flush. Again, the bottom drops out of the CCG market around 2000 or so. Another big blow to brick and mortar specialty hobby shops.

It's easy to point to the hobby and say, "The hobby is dying! Look at THIS!" But, like the claims that SF is dying (it's been on its deathbed for a couple of decades now) because print SF magazines have had to change formats or have gone out of business (guess what? So have EVERY SINGLE print formats out there), claims that the hobby is dying is based on very little actual evidence.

------------

Eyebeams - you asked what a VTT could provide? That's easy. Imagine having modules pre packaged for play on a VTT. Every die roller automated in an easy macro, every create pre-formated for the VTT.

Being able to play D&D without any prep beyond reading a ten page module. FAN FREAKING TASTIC!
 

Maybe it's a fine stopgap for existing gamers who are willing to make the conceptual leap, but I don't see it as a way to revitalize the hobby as some people seem to be saying.

I see what you mean. I agree that VTTs are not going to revitalize tabletop roleplaying by themselves. I would add that I feel that no one thing is going to revitalize tabletop RPGs. Instead it is going to take a multiprong approach to grow the hobby however slowly. The main reason is that the ways are multiplying in how the social network connects the individual members. Anything that wants to have a broad appeal need to incorporate many of them.

VTTs will be an important part of tabletop's future, but so will tablets, surface computing, print on demand and host of other technologies.

My guess is that 10 years from now, the most popular solution will look more like an online game with role-playing capabilities, than an app that tries to translate the current tabletop scene.

To me the big unknown is whether large display surfaces will take off. If they don't then I see a long period of time where things are pretty much the way they are now. The main difference will be that the new methods of distributing products will have settled and as well as the use of internet based social networking. Technology we have now will mature.

One area of new development is increased connectivity between tabletop rpg apps. Everybody has a tablet and it very easy for everybody sitting around the table (or using the internet) to connect. Much like Fantasy Grounds the referee will be able to see everybody's character sheet, and do other VTT like actitives (fog of war, etc). The difference in the future will be just easy to setup.

The game changer comes if surface computing takes off. Imagine a entire dining room table as computer screen. Already we seen developers created a automated D&D 4e surface where miniatures use barcodes to communicate to the underlying software.

It will be a game changer because one "board" can play a huge variety of traditional games. The technology allows the use of physical pieces which many gamers like. It will allow the complexity of a rule system to be hidden. This aspect is similar to MMORPG and CRPGs. And it will work with people sitting physically around the table.

If they can make flexible portable large surfaces then things will get real crazy.
 


IronWolf

blank
Eyebeams - you asked what a VTT could provide? That's easy. Imagine having modules pre packaged for play on a VTT. Every die roller automated in an easy macro, every create pre-formated for the VTT.

Being able to play D&D without any prep beyond reading a ten page module. FAN FREAKING TASTIC!

I think we will start to see more modules like this as it starts to catch on. We see some of this in products like Breaking of Forstor Nagar.
 

Clavis

First Post
One of the reasons MMORPGs are so popular (although certainly not the only reason) is that they allow non-geeks (especially women) to be geeky without being seen associating with geeks.

The non-geeks who previously would game privately (but never go to cons, wear game t-shirts, or otherwise openly advertise their love of RPGs) no longer need to sneak around, hoping their larger social group never finds out about their rpg habit. They can simply log-on and play, never revealing their actual identity.

Whatever we like to tell ourselves in our own press, being a geek is not cool. RPG gaming is not cool. Gamers have a horrible social reputation that we've largely inflicted on ourselves. In my experience, many women simply don't feel like they can game without unpleasant social repercussions, either from their friends, or from male gamers themselves. At best, male gamers tend to inelegantly ogle any females who come around. At worst, there is outright misogyny born from bitter memories of unsuccessful love lives.

I know for a fact that there are attractive, socially adept women who love fantasy and play MMORPGs, but would never consider for a moment stepping foot anywhere near a game store. The traditional RPG market is contracting in part because of gamers. Non-geeks simply don't need to associate with geeks anymore.

I think that the Dungeons & Dragons name is both the banner of the RPG industry, and the albatross around its neck. "Playing D&D", in the mind of the general public, is reserved for misfits and nerds (who are also, not cool). As long as it's called "D&D" non-geeks won't do it in large numbers. If it isn't called D&D, the established base won't play. You can sell to the public, or sell to the geek base, but its very hard to appeal to them both.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mark CMG

Creative Mountain Games
You originally made the claim and now your telling alphastream to do a search to prove your own claim for you.


Not for me, for himself. I'm often surprsed when folks can't pick up on what is happening on their own but sometimes time and other factors makes it tough to keep an eye on things. I've been following this closely for years, online and by discussing things with individuals at conventions and elsewhere. If you're looking for me to give you a direct quote from someone who has confided in me, you'll be waiting a long time and as you point out in the second half of your post, it's easy to dismiss someone out of hand even with two decades of industry experience like RyanD. If you want to educate yourself and come to similar conclusions (never a guarentee), then you have to do some of your own heavy lifting. It helps to begin by asking some of the right questions.


RyanD also isnt the best unbias person to ask for data. hes already proven his bias. By his account, wotc should have died in a death-spiral a couple years back.


By his account they are at the beginnings of one. Do you disagree? Four years ago I would have said they were just at the end of an edition cycle, were hitting some bumps working out the new licensing scheme they were trying to produce, and making a few missteps in their hype/marketing of the new edition. It did seem like an awkward period but the new edition was scheduled for June 8th release in 2008 and even some fumbling of the roll out was likely to be squelched by the new shiny of the game. How do you feel that has gone now that we're three and a half years beyond that release? How's the market look? What are the latest indicators as to how the brand is doing? Do you know if anything new is happening with the game? Anything so new as to suspect things will suddenly be as bright and shiny as when they rescued the brand from TSR, put out a new edition when hundreds of small publishers were helping support the game and their market share was as high as many have ever seen it since the Eighties? (Look it up . . .)

As to your opinion that RyanD has a bias, one could just as easily claim that anyone with an opinion has a bias. His, however, at least comes with a couple decades of expereince on the subject he is discussing. But, you can read around a bit and determine if that is truly a factor for youself, if that's not too much trouble and you don't need it served up to you more directly. Someone can also click on your posts here on EN World and get a better handle on what drives the nine months of your limited posting history. All we can really do is look into things and then make decisions based on that knowledge and our own experience.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Alphastream

Adventurer
Yet we are being told there has been a large decline in store numbers. Anyone else got any local info - particularly for North America - to lob in here?

Single local data is basically random/inaccurate data. Looking at Wizards' directory shows more than 500 locations in the US where you can play Encounters... and that has to be a fraction of all gaming stores (lots of gaming stores don't have Encounters, don't carry D&D but carry other similar products, etc.).

More than just the numbers, I am curious about the premise. I saw a lot of gaming stores closing in the '90s, but I see stores doing really well 20 years later. That's not to say individual stores don't close, shrink, etc., but overall gaming stores seem to now have better ideas on how to stay profitable (and a lot of that is by making RPGs a smaller part of their mix... they just don't compete with Magic, Pokemon, GW, etc.). Great stores bring in busloads of kids, have D&D camps for young ones, etc. Good stores don't go that far, but they have a far better business plan than "I like games and this seems like a fun job" - I heard that far too often in the '90s and '00s as I traveled around the country.

What is great about stores is that they showcase product and build community. They facilitate impulse buys, getting a gaming group, using that impulse or planned purchase. I really hope Dancey answers my earlier questions, because I'm curious just how critical this all is compared to other ways of distributing. How critical are stores to Pathfinder, given the well known Paizo-owned Paizo store? If the brick and mortar store is critical to Paizo, that says something. Is Paizo really seeing the demise of the store and worried about it?

What I see is that the overall model of RPGs is not great for stores. Stores carry D&D and RPGs because they believe in RPGs and because some of their gamers really want that content, but their profitability is in minis and CCGs and some board games. That underlying model where six gamers is really just 1 to 2 gamers buying things... that isn't a good model. Those same gamers all are spending a lot of money on video games, on movies, on many other hobby aspects, but not on RPGs. That really needs to change for our hobby to escape the boom-bust cycle. Let's keep in mind that most RPG players never post on forums (if they even heard of EN World), have just 1-2 PCs for their favorite RPG, don't own more than 1-2 player books, etc.
 

Remove ads

Remove ads

Top