D&D 4E 4E ability scores

[AFGNCAAP]

I wonder how much of SWSE development (esp. how SWSE deals with the Force) may influence how magic/spells will be dealt with in 4e.

In SWSE (for those unfamiliar withthe system), Force users have to have the "Force Sensitive" feat, be trained in the "Use the Force" skill, and then had to select a Feat, "Force Training" to access Force powers (usually equal to 1 + Wis mod); the feat can be selected multiple times, allowing the character to gain access to more Force powers.

Then again, there are only a handful of Force powers in SWSE, almost all of which fell under the once per encounter category (at will stuff was treated as a Use the Force skill check).

I could see Wizards and the like relying on high Int scores, with trained (& even Skill Focused) Arcana checks to "detect magic" and using spells & the other magical abilities. Or clerics using high Wis and trained/Skill Focused Religion checks to bless, turn undead, and the like.

 

[fafhrd]

I could see Wizards and the like relying on high Int scores, with trained (& even Skill Focused) Arcana checks to "detect magic" and using spells & the other magical abilities.

It'd be great if it were simply a skill to detect magic, providing for the literary convention of the rogue or warrior being able to sense the presence of magic by virtue of having been around it for years(high level character with cross class skill).

 

[Lord Sessadore]

It seems some ability scores will be reduced in effect and others will receive a bump. I am curious if we will still need a stat score of 10+X to cast a X-level spell.

I really hope not, since they've told us that spell levels are now tied directly to character level. ie - if Wizards are still eligible for fireball at 5th level, fireball will be a 5th level spell (or power). That would be a lot of Int!

~LS

 

[RigaMortus2]

It'd be great if it were simply a skill to detect magic, providing for the literary convention of the rogue or warrior being able to sense the presence of magic by virtue of having been around it for years(high level character with cross class skill).

Not to get off on a tangent, but I think Identifying magic items should be easier. I hate having to use an Identify spell, which takes 8 hours, consumes 100gps and only tells you 1 property of a magic item. I think Identify should just be folded into Detect Magic IMHO.

 

[fafhrd]

3.5 Identify is a little more charitable, but you're right. It's obnoxious. Moreso if you don't have the right party complement to cast it at all.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

We're likely to have an answer to this question by this time tomorrow...

 

[MaelStorm]

I keep reading here and there (most speculations AFAIK) that the ability scores no longer add to certain things. Like Dex doesn't add to your ranged attack roll, Str doesn't add to your melee attack roll, Con does not add to HPs, Int does not add to bonus skills. If this is the case, why have ability scores?

I hope this isn't so.

I know that nobody likes MAD classes, and classes where only 1 or 2 ability scores are "needed" can be overly specialized, but there has to be a happy medium other than heavily de-emphasizing ability scores altogether.

Perhaps each class can have 3 ability scores they focus in, and depending on your build, you would concentrate on that ability. A Paladin might have Str, Cha and Wis. If you want a melee-centric Paladin, go Str. If you want a spell-centric Paladin, pick Wis. If you want an Undead Turning or social Paladin, pick Cha as your main stat that your abilities are based off of.

Anyway, just a thought.

The main question is, is this fact or speculation that ability scores are being de-emphasized in 4E?

It's a fact. The two character builds of the Rogue as shown in the Sneak Attack! article is validating it.

And your character build (your specialization) will have a direct link for your Paragon Path [that is speculation on my part though]. EDIT: And if this part is true, abilities will be very important as it will be defining your career in the long term.

 

[Ulthwithian]

What, specifically, are you claiming as a fact, Mael? That ability scores are devalued? It would seem to me, from the article you use as your source (and others like it), that as most people here have said, it is not being devalued as 'shuffled'. Rogues are explicitly stating as caring about 3 scores in the article: Dex, Str, and Cha. Note the minimal benefit from Con that the class receives; this reinforces that fact.

Now, if you are claiming as fact that the 'generality' of ability scores are being de-emphasized, this is most likely true. However, is this a good move or a bad one? I know I for one am very glad that not all of my characters will need to have a 14+ Con to do what needs to be done in a game. One of the most 'memorable' (in mainly a bad way) characters I've ever seen was a Rogue/Sorcerer with a Con of 8. That simply doesn't work at all (especially when you try to focus on touch spells!) in 3.X, while there doesn't seem to be nearly the penalty associated with it in 4E.

 

[MaelStorm]

What, specifically, are you claiming as a fact, Mael? That ability scores are devalued? It would seem to me, from the article you use as your source (and others like it), that as most people here have said, it is not being devalued as 'shuffled'. Rogues are explicitly stating as caring about 3 scores in the article: Dex, Str, and Cha. Note the minimal benefit from Con that the class receives; this reinforces that fact.

Now, if you are claiming as fact that the 'generality' of ability scores are being de-emphasized, this is most likely true. However, is this a good move or a bad one? I know I for one am very glad that not all of my characters will need to have a 14+ Con to do what needs to be done in a game. One of the most 'memorable' (in mainly a bad way) characters I've ever seen was a Rogue/Sorcerer with a Con of 8. That simply doesn't work at all (especially when you try to focus on touch spells!) in 3.X, while there doesn't seem to be nearly the penalty associated with it in 4E.

I think its a good move. I think it needed to be changed and reworked. Which they did.

 

[Stormtalon]

Now, here's a question -- don't know if we've gone thru this in detail here or not (and I've been following the boards reasonably well).

Two assumptions we've got going so far are as follows:

1) Unified BAB as 1/2 level.
2) Ability Score bonuses are base bonus + 1/2 level

Take a rogue at two levels, level 1 & level 10, each using Deft Strike, each with 18 Dex. Compare their attack rolls made using these two assumptions:

Level 1 Rogue: Deft Strike -- +4 (BAB 0, Dex +4)
Level 10 Rogue: Deft Strike -- +14 (BAB +5, Dex +9)

Is this even possibly right? By Level 20, the attack bonus will be +24, assuming all else stays the same (and based on what I know of SWSE, stats do still increase over levels). Now AC will also be increasing as things go along, and the Pit Fiend did have a rather astronomically high AC, so maybe yes?