4e Battle of Good vs. Evil: Ice Archon & Co. vs. Eye Of Flame & Co.

[Infiniti2000]

We did the Oakhurst adventure, sticking to combat trials (no RP for the most part). We spent a little while at first trying to get the players to convert their thinking from 3.5 to 4. It was a little tough I think. Also, I still don't have a great grasp of everything (can you ready or delay? how? does being in water grant cover? does cover apply to a burst that occurs near you or vs. the caster's position? ...). But, I did notice that my action decision time as DM was HUGELY improved. I still need to get the players to speed up, but they can no longer use my slowness as a crutch (deciding actions for a huge number of high-level spellcasters in 3.5 was extremely time consuming; there's no way it will be even one tenth the same issue in 4e). Overall, I think we just like the simplicity of things, especially the fewer number of rolls (no saving throws vs. effects immediately, and one save for all without any modifiers).

We're not sure how much improvement we'll get out of 4e, but I think I've convinced them it's worth trying. I'll let you know their responses if they send anything by e-mail. Btw, the fight vs. Nightscale resulted in a virtual TPK (we stopped before the actual TPK), despite having three players run 2 characters each (the fourth player left a little early).

I don't understand the sample (fan created?) modules. All the baddies are like 3rd-level and above. How is that considered level appropriate? It almost kinda works out, but it makes no sense to me. I need to read the DMG I think on encounter preparation.

 

[Gansk]

Delay should be like 3.5, you've done it a couple of times in the battle. The ready action sacrifices a standard action for an immediate interrupt based on the trigger condition - initiative stays the same. I think water would grant cover, but I would treat a burst as a 3.5 spread - it goes around corners.

The encounter prep looks like a breeze in 4e. Six 1st level PC's should yield an average encounter budget of 600 XP. Third level bad guys are 150 XP each, so four of them should pose an average challenge. The black dragon is 875 XP, so he is still as deadly as advertised.
Below 300 XP would be too easy, above 900 XP is threatening a TPK.

How many rounds fighting the dragon? Did it drag out to PC at-wills vs. darkness/bite?

 

[Infiniti2000]

The ready becoming an immediate action just seems weird. So, you can ready to go just before you go the next round to set up a one-two punch? I'm not sure I like that concept. Yeah, basically the PC's burned all their daily and encounter powers and then it turned into a slugfest which the dragon would've one due to his nearly unhittable AC and defenses, especially in the cover of the water.

 

[Gansk]

It might be that the ready action is the same as 3.5, and people are speculating on the immediate action part. Immediate actions are powerful because of the one-two punch, now I know why many conditions prevent you from using them.

The dragon fight demonstrates my main concern with 4e - there's a lot of shock and awe in the first three or four rounds, then it reverts back to a repetitive routine because all of the flashy powers have been used up. People say, "Well, that's no different from 3e." But in 3e, there is no high expectation of shock and awe, so there is no letdown after they are done.

Also in 3e, there are so many different combinations of things that can be done, sometimes unique things pop up that nobody thought of before. This could still be true in 4e, since we haven't seen a lot of different terrains, utility powers, rituals, and skill challenges. But so far the combat power concept lends itself more to tactics, but not creativity on the battlefield.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Comments from the players:

• I'd like to see a 4E druid.
• I didn't like the recurring damage stuff (acid from the dragon), it just seemed like too much to track.
• It doesn't seem to be all that much better, but maybe we'll get more of a feel for it when the actual rules come out. I'd like to see what higher level play is like. Will there be even more options or the same ones with more damage?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Kojack's wis check: 14+12+2-5 succeeds vs. Will-2, 3+23+2-5 hits AC-2, 7 damage plus 6 necrotic plus dazed and weakened.

OOC: Doesn't Penn actually have to burrow to get the refuge?

OOC: What's the second +2 on Angelina's attack? With Penn and Clint dazed, they do not provide flanking. One +2 is from the beacon. Did I ask this question before?

OOC: Can Senshock hit Kojack with the spectral dissipation since it won't damage him, or will Kojack still be affected by the -2 on defenses thing? In other words, is it like DR vs. attacks with poison in 3.5e?

Bad Guys:
Yoko Oni (oni, SW): 59/68hp, injured
Senshock (spectral magelord, AP, SW): 38/38hp, full
Kojack (bodak reaver, leader): 81/175hp +15thp, bloodied, +2 defenses

Yoko Oni fails to recharge anything ( ). She attacks Penn with flanking, 2+17+2-5 misses.

Senshock recharges ( ). He fires off a spectral dissipation on the north end, hitting Clint and Ghengis. Damage is 18 necrotic and -2 defenses remainder of the encounter.

Clint: 15+8+2-5 vs. Will-2, hits (Clint is down and teleported out, bring on Teri Hatcher)
Angelina: 19+8-5 vs. Will-2, hits

Senshock moves to 55n80e10z.

Kojack takes a second wind, gaining 43hp and +2 to defenses. He also drink in the death of Clint.

 

[Gansk]

OOC: The Burrowed Refuge is the only ability that doesn't seem to require the burrowing. The fluff suggests it, but the crunch doesn't back it up.

Angelina flanks adjacent enemies by herself, she doesn't need help.

I think the resistance is high enough without adding the poison rule. Kojack would take the defense loss side effect even without taking damage. Since you specified Clint and Ghengis were in the area, I assume Ghengis was hit instead of Angelina.

Kojack cannot drink the death of Clint because Clint was not a living creature.

Good Guys:
Penn (bulette, SW): 79/94hp, injured, dazed, weakened
Ghengis (dwarf warlord, SW) -19/83hp, dying (1), -2 def
Angelina (skeletal tomb guardian, SW) 85/112hp, injured, -2 def, +2 def
Teri (skeletal tomb guardian, leader, SW, AP): 112/112hp, full


Round 90:

Penn attacks Yoko, 10+16, barely hit. Yoko takes 12/2 = 6 and has -5 AC for 1 round. Penn misses his save (5+2).

Ghengis starts dying (5).

Angelina shifts to 60N65E and takes a second wind.

Teri Hatcher appears at 30N65E and tries the double cascade on Yoko, burning an AP.
Attack 1: 6+16+2, hit AC-5. Max 14 damage.
Attack 2: 6+16+2, hit AC-5. 11 damage.
Attack 3: 16+16+2, hit. 10 damage.
Attack 4: 8+16+2, hit. 13 damage. Next cascade.
Attack 1: 6+16+2, hit AC-5. 12 damage. Yoko drops to -7 hp.
Attacks 2-4: auto hits, max 14 damage each, Yoko teleports out with -49 hp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

OOC: Angelina took her SW.

Bad Guys:
Senshock (spectral magelord, AP, SW): 38/38hp, full
Kojack (bodak reaver, leader): 81/175hp, bloodied

Senshock fails to recharge ( ). He hangs tight and moves to 60n85e15z.

Kojack is angry about being denied drinking the death of Clint. He shifts to 60n60e and swats Angelina, 18+23 hits AC-2+2 for 10 damage plus 8 necrotic plus Angelina is dazed and weakened for so long it's not true, I wanted a woman, never bargained for you . . . oops, sorry, got carried away there.

 

[Gansk]

Good Guys:
Penn (bulette, SW): 79/94hp, injured
Ghengis (dwarf warlord, SW) -19/83hp, dying (1), -2 def
Angelina (skeletal tomb guardian) 57/112hp, injured, -2 def, dazed, weakened
Teri (skeletal tomb guardian, leader, SW, AP): 102/112hp, injured

Round 91:

Penn moves to 65N65E. He makes his save (19+2).

Ghengis stays steady (15).

Angelina makes a double attack on Kojack the dy'er maker after getting zapped.
Attack 1: 4+16+2-2, miss.
Attack 2: 17+16+2-2, hit. 8/2 = 4 damage.
She misses her save (5+2).

Teri moves to 55N60E and double attacks.
Attack 1: 12+16+2-2, miss.
Attack 2: 20+16+2-2, crit! 14 damage.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Bad Guys:
Thrommel (vampire vizier, AP, SW): 101/101hp, full
Senshock (spectral magelord, SW): 38/38hp, full
Kojack (bodak reaver, leader): 63/175hp, bloodied

Thrommel the vampire vizier (medium) appears at 75n75e and swings his greatsword at Penn, 6+17+2, barely hits for 9 damage. He swings again (1st AP), 19+17+2, hits for 14 damage. The High Prince of Furyondy then looks around, frantically searching for a living humanoid. "Everyone's undead except for this, this . . . bug?"

Senshock fails to recharge ( ). He waits on Kojack. "Daze Penn for me, will you?"

Kojack attacks Penn, 1+23+2 hits (no automatic miss, right?) for 11 damage plus 2 necrotic plus Penn is dazed and weakened.

Senshock charges Angelina to 60n70e5z with an aether blast, 5+9+1+2 vs. Fort, fails. Angelina cannot riposte, however. Senshock uses his AP to try again, 9+9+1+2 vs. Fort, fails by one! Oh, the humanity! Oh, wait, there's no charge bonus on the second attack, so fails by two. Phew, that feels better.