D&D 4E 4e -- Is The World Made Of Cheese?

[WhatGravitas]

Uhm...page 169 in my DMG is the Hand of Vecna.

It was a joke - he was referring to the 3E DMG.

But I'd say instead of importing the old hardness rules, what about this:

"Rule of Squishy" or is it human-like?

Well, if you have a inch-sized cube and drop it from 10 ft., what will happen:
Destroyed or severe damage: No resist.
Damaged, at least scratches or a notched corner: Resist all 5
Unscathed, or very superficial: Resist all 10.

Modify for special cases like flammable materials (no resist, but instead vulnerability to fire) or other materials (like paper).

I think I'm going to use that.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Raduin711]

I really don't see a problem here. Is DM Fiat really so bad?

 

[silentounce]

Remember Gygax himself said the secret we should never tell the players is that they dont actually need any rules.

Gee, thanks. You got anything to say about the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus while you're at it?

 

[Durlok]

DM fiat means more work for me, both in terms of figuring out an appropriate call and making sure my calls on it thereafter are consistent. I dislike having more work to do, because as is both play, prep, and sleep time are very limited for me.

So tell your players to stop thinking too hard about fantasy.

Some of us - including some DMs - want the parts of fantasy that *aren't* magic to make logical sense. Your way of "not thinking too hard" is only one style of play, and only one style of fantasy in general for that matter. It's not good general advice.

 

[JohnSnow]

Where?

This whole thread might be unnecessary...

Dungeon Master's Guide, pp. 64-66.

It gives DCs to climb or break through walls, and DCs to break down doors.

Object Properties (p. 65) discusses what it takes to damage (destroy or render useless) various objects. Walls are, naturally, not included.

Finally, objects can have immunities and vulnerabilities. These are determined by the DM based on his/her discretion. Some suggestions are given on p. 66.

The short version of walls is that while it's possible to break through them, you essentially have to succeed at an enormous break DC (35 for a 1 ft. thick masonry wall) to do so. As far as doors, just rule resistance to the damage you feel is necessary. If you decide no amount of arrows can destroy a door, for example, give the door resistance 30 piercing.

I guess it's not a hardness table, but it seems to work fine for everything except digging.

Digging is just slow and requires appropriate tools. Similarly, given the high DC, an attempt to break through a wall without the proper tools is doomed to failure (unless we're talking about super-high-level PCs, obviously.

Seems fine to me.

 

[Harr]

So why am I playing D&D and not Amber, again?

Why are you playing D&D and not Amber?

 

[MindWanderer]

I ran a DDGD game yesterday where the players decided that the rogue was taking too long unlocking the iron manacles (which was a reasonable decision, considering the roof was collapsing) and started hacking at them with their weapons. I blinked; the module didn't have rules for this. I made a behind-the-screen "speed of plot" ruling that it would take the party two rounds of everyone attacking (except the wizard, trying to cut the manacles with his dagger--I just said no to him). By the rules on p.65, they should have had about 45 HP at most (and an AC of 8!), which would have taken them only about a round or so. I'm happy with the way it turned out, though, so I don't regret my call.

 

[danzig138]

No one has articulated why removing hardness (but leaving a formula for object hit points by size and construction) is a net gain.

Because through some set of arcane formulas, someone decided that hardness = Unfun, and *poof*. Hell, I don't know. Seems like an oversight to me (and yet another (tiny) point against 4E for Me).

Perhaps that is the problem?

Haha, being an ass is funny when you inlude a smiley

We're called Masters for a reason.

Yeah, but only some of us deserve it, and I'm not seeing too many posts from us lately.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Just one question ... what are the rules on these underground tunnels collapsing in on players? Or that all these walls getting punched out are technically part of the structure that is holding up the roof of the building, etc ...

It just seems with all the concern on how hard it is to punch a tunnel, there doesn't seem to be a complaint about no rules about all the other issues involved in those kinds of situation.

The whole idea of hardness is just a way of attempting to resolve the fact that OBJECTS shouldn't really have hit points ...

"I punch the wall"

"Congratulations, the wall is now unconcious/dead"

 

[Thasmodious]

Yeah, but only some of us deserve it, and I'm not seeing too many posts from us lately.

I agree. And if you can't figure out how to adjudicate a player hitting an adamantium wall with his fist without a table, or wonder if dwarves get a saving throw to avoid going prone when killed, or finds experience makes you better at things unrealistic, then perhaps the initials are undeserved. Maybe a different title should apply. I don't know what title, but I suspect it rhymes with schnoob. And, lest I forget -