Reverend47
First Post
What happened with Neverwinter after the spellplague bit? I've found references to it, but nothing solid.
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D&D 4E 4e virgin looking for answers
- Thread starter Reverend47
- Start date
Old Edition, real wrath of Bahamut type stuff. Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling. Forty years of darkness, earthquakes, volcanoes. The dead rising from the grave. Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.
Peraion Graufalke
First Post
Reverend47
First Post
Another question here. I've been going through the books off and on for the last few days trying to get it all down. Now, I just stumbled onto the essentials line, did some googling on it and apparently it's a kinda-sorta .5 edition. I'm looking through it, trying to figure out what it changes and what stays the same, and right now my brain is basically just mush.
I'm wanting to learn 4e by just jumping in, both feet forward but this bit is confusing me. What does essentials change? I read that apparently the monster manual 1 is very unbalanced and that characters even over level 10 probably will be able to steam roll them if they have access to all the books (as mine most likely will-though they doubtfully will make ideal use of them)
I'm looking at the warpriest right now. Is the warpriest a cleric build? Is it a different class entirely? Or is it a replacement for the cleric? I'm noticing it doesn't have any at will powers and has nothing mentioned about it.
I'm wanting to learn 4e by just jumping in, both feet forward but this bit is confusing me. What does essentials change? I read that apparently the monster manual 1 is very unbalanced and that characters even over level 10 probably will be able to steam roll them if they have access to all the books (as mine most likely will-though they doubtfully will make ideal use of them)
I'm looking at the warpriest right now. Is the warpriest a cleric build? Is it a different class entirely? Or is it a replacement for the cleric? I'm noticing it doesn't have any at will powers and has nothing mentioned about it.
Essentials is not a .5 release. That's just a moniker attached to it before release by the sky-is-falling MIBs-confiscating-my-edition-books crowd.
The Rules Compendium has everything a DM needs to know about combat rules. It's layed out rather nicely and makes an excellent reference if you're good with finding stuff in the index.
The essentials player books offer more builds for existing classes, but geared for a more nostalgic player (and supposedly simpler for newer players). It follows the same rules, but the class design is slightly different, with lots of reliance on basic attacks and encounters. Wider options at the at-will level to make up for lack of daily powers in some builds. They are just as fun to play as all the other builds and classes.
The monster vault gives you some new monsters and updates for some existing (esp. solo monsters like dragons. MM1 Solos weren't designed well).
War priest is just a different build of cleric. IIRC, it's designed for clerics that want to get "all up in it" and "lay some smack down" while healing allies, as opposed to hanging back.
The Rules Compendium has everything a DM needs to know about combat rules. It's layed out rather nicely and makes an excellent reference if you're good with finding stuff in the index.
The essentials player books offer more builds for existing classes, but geared for a more nostalgic player (and supposedly simpler for newer players). It follows the same rules, but the class design is slightly different, with lots of reliance on basic attacks and encounters. Wider options at the at-will level to make up for lack of daily powers in some builds. They are just as fun to play as all the other builds and classes.
The monster vault gives you some new monsters and updates for some existing (esp. solo monsters like dragons. MM1 Solos weren't designed well).
War priest is just a different build of cleric. IIRC, it's designed for clerics that want to get "all up in it" and "lay some smack down" while healing allies, as opposed to hanging back.
OnlineDM
Adventurer
Warpriest is a cleric build. It does have at-will powers (they're listed with the domains - Sun or Storm in Heroes of the Fallen Lands) as well as encounter, daily and utility powers. It's what's sometimes referred to as an AEDU built (at-will / encounter / daily / utility powers) - the traditional 4e character build.
Essentials presents new options. All of the previous classes are still fine and pretty much unchanged (there have been constant rules updates since the beginning of 4e). Some of these builds feel a lot like the older builds (Warpriest, Mage). Some of them are radically different from the older builds (Knight, Slayer, Thief, Hunter, Scout).
The radically different builds abandon the AEDU structure. Instead of having at-will attack powers, they're built around melee basic attacks or ranged basic attacks. They have other at-will abilities (either moves or stances or tweaks to basic attacks). They have a single encounter power and get more uses of it as they level up. They don't get daily attack powers.
These new builds are simpler to construct and to play than the AEDU builds (opinions vary; that's mine). People who want the complexity of AEDU classes probably won't like the martial Essentials classes, but the original classes are still right there. Some people freak out about Essentials being a half-edition; it's not, in my opinion.
As for monsters, you'll find that earlier monsters just don't deal enough damage (there are a few other issues, too, but that's the big one). When I'm running adventures that were published with older monsters, I update the damage they deal (and I add some extra abilities to solo monsters so they don't get locked out of a fight so easily by action denial effects). Page 40 of this document will give you the updated monster stats to use.
Essentials presents new options. All of the previous classes are still fine and pretty much unchanged (there have been constant rules updates since the beginning of 4e). Some of these builds feel a lot like the older builds (Warpriest, Mage). Some of them are radically different from the older builds (Knight, Slayer, Thief, Hunter, Scout).
The radically different builds abandon the AEDU structure. Instead of having at-will attack powers, they're built around melee basic attacks or ranged basic attacks. They have other at-will abilities (either moves or stances or tweaks to basic attacks). They have a single encounter power and get more uses of it as they level up. They don't get daily attack powers.
These new builds are simpler to construct and to play than the AEDU builds (opinions vary; that's mine). People who want the complexity of AEDU classes probably won't like the martial Essentials classes, but the original classes are still right there. Some people freak out about Essentials being a half-edition; it's not, in my opinion.
As for monsters, you'll find that earlier monsters just don't deal enough damage (there are a few other issues, too, but that's the big one). When I'm running adventures that were published with older monsters, I update the damage they deal (and I add some extra abilities to solo monsters so they don't get locked out of a fight so easily by action denial effects). Page 40 of this document will give you the updated monster stats to use.
malraux
First Post
Essentials are mostly just new builds of the regular classes. Some of them don't have the atwill, utility, encounter, daily structure that others do. Still, essentials and others can coexist in the same party without trouble.
There were a few minor rules changes, but not all that many for essentials. Items have rarity now. Some conditions got reworded. Much much less than the 3e to 3.5e change.
As for monsters yeah the mm3 monsters are better than the mm1 monsters.
There were a few minor rules changes, but not all that many for essentials. Items have rarity now. Some conditions got reworded. Much much less than the 3e to 3.5e change.
As for monsters yeah the mm3 monsters are better than the mm1 monsters.
Reverend47
First Post
So the new classes in Forgotten Kingdoms/Fallen Lands are basically the lower entry level brothers of the classes in the PHB. I'm guessing that a warpriest for example is considered a cleric for the purposes of feats, etc. But it's not any more powerful or weak by any notable degree?
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OnlineDM
Adventurer
More or less, yeah. Warpriests can take cleric feats (the original PHB1 cleric has been renamed the Templar; the fighter is the Weaponmaster; these are all builds of the broader Cleric and Fighter classes).
I wouldn't necessarily call them "lower entry level" - I know what you mean by that (easier to get into playing for new players), but some people might think you meant they were less powerful. And as you note, they're really not less powerful. I've personally found the Thief to be crazy-strong (and boring, but that's just a personal preference issue). The fact that they lack daily powers means that their peak power is lower, but they get benefits to make up for it with their at-wills.
If a party constantly ran only one combat before an extended rest, the AEDU (traditional) builds would be more powerful because they could keep using their daily attacks. If a party ran eight combats before an extended rest, the non-AEDU builds would be stronger as they can keep dishing out the goodness without worrying about running out of daily attacks. At three or four combats between extended rests, the different types of builds are intended to be similar in power level.
I wouldn't necessarily call them "lower entry level" - I know what you mean by that (easier to get into playing for new players), but some people might think you meant they were less powerful. And as you note, they're really not less powerful. I've personally found the Thief to be crazy-strong (and boring, but that's just a personal preference issue). The fact that they lack daily powers means that their peak power is lower, but they get benefits to make up for it with their at-wills.
If a party constantly ran only one combat before an extended rest, the AEDU (traditional) builds would be more powerful because they could keep using their daily attacks. If a party ran eight combats before an extended rest, the non-AEDU builds would be stronger as they can keep dishing out the goodness without worrying about running out of daily attacks. At three or four combats between extended rests, the different types of builds are intended to be similar in power level.
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