4th ed Druid over wizard? Over 3.5 druid?

[Kitirat]

I've been reading reviews, playtesting, and otherwise pondering the 4th ed druid. So far it is hard to say why anyone would ever play a wizard over a druid. Role Creep at its worst. Anyone have a difference of opinion? If I am stuck on combat, transforming allows them out of the primary controller issue of being in melee. they even get a free shift when tey come out of the form. Their burst spells are better than the wizards at the expense of an ability modifier worth of damage. Well made and their AC is comparable, so where is the advantage of being a wizard? A little more damage? Will be interesting to see the higher level stuff.


Also, I've read people saying it is better than the 3.5 druid (or as good). I disagree. With natural spell a druid could hide in trees as a bird and rain down dire bears on anyone for half the day and not flinch. He was a party all to himself.

I'm interested in both trains of thought. What are the thoughts on the 4th ed druid, especially from people playtesting it.

See ya,
Ken

 

[Oni]

I'm kind of wondering why they didn't split their powers between two stats like they did with some other classes. I feel like they should have to specialize a little more to one side of the spectum or the other.

 

[MrMyth]

Well, only so much judgement can be made based on what has been seen thus far.

But from what I've seen, and what I'm expecting, advantages wizards still have over druids:

1) Range
2) Targets (Larger Areas and more multi-target spells)
3) More debilitating effects

Druids, meanwhile, will have the edge in:
1) Durability and Movement
2) Versatility
3) Terrain control

Right now, hard to tell amongst their lower level powers. They seem to go back and forth between who gets higher damage powers, and who gets more special effects from powers. Which, honestly, feels like balance.

I think a lot of the worries about 'super power creep' here are somewhat premature - I'll concede the potential is there, but I really don't see it. When PHB2 hits, I'd like to say we'll know for sure... but I suspect the debate will still rage on anyway, as is the wont of gamers.

 

[Cadfan]

Their burst spells are better than the wizards at the expense of an ability modifier worth of damage. Well made and their AC is comparable, so where is the advantage of being a wizard? A little more damage? Will be interesting to see the higher level stuff.

Its not a little more damage, its quite a lot. Doing 1d6+Implement versus doing 1d6+Stat+Implement is a big deal. The latter is about double the former for most characters at most levels.

At level 1, a druid is going to use his 1d6 burst 1 power to deal an average damage of (1d6+0) 3.5.

An 18 Int wizard at level 1 will deal an average of (1d6+4+0) = 7.5.

At level 8, lets give them both +2 gear, and +1 to their primary stat bonus. The druid will average 5.5, and the wizard will average 10.5.

At level 14, we can give them +3 gear, and another +1 to their primary stat bonus. Druid will average 6.5, and the wizard will average 12.5.

At level 21, there's a small shift. Lets give them +5 gear at that point, and assume that their attack stat is now a +7. The druid will average (2d6+5) 12, and the wizard will average (2d6+12) 19.

The damage differences are not small. My biggest impression coming away from the druid preview was that they had some interesting control elements, but that they simply did not do much damage, and would therefore be tough to use.

 

[Stalker0]

One advantage of the wizard is higher AC. Int is his primary stat, and with the always useful leather proficiency the wizard beats the druid in AC, probably by 1 or 2 points.

 

[Shroomy]

In addition to what has already been mentioned, wizards have their spellbooks, giving them greater versatility when it comes to their daily and utility spells. Since they also begin with 3 rituals at 1st level and gain two free rituals at 5th, 11th, 15th, 21st, and 25th level, I'd say they have a significant leg up on druids in that department. Arcane implement mastery gives the wizard an edge beyond the benefits that a druid gains from their own implement. Finally, the at-will cantrips have a broad range of uses that a creative or practically minded player can exploit.

All in all, while I really like the druid, the wizard ain't too shabby!

 

[yesnomu]

One advantage of the wizard is higher AC. Int is his primary stat, and with the always useful leather proficiency the wizard beats the druid in AC, probably by 1 or 2 points.

Doubtful-- since druids get hide, and will pump a stat that adds to AC one way or another, they likely will be ahead. On the other hand, if they're going into melee, they absolutely need it.

Now Reflex, on the other hand, will be rather unfortunate for the caster-type druids.

I really don't see much if any power creep going on here. The druid does much less damage than the wizard, and doesn't get anything nearly as powerful as Sleep or Flaming Sphere. Which fits my idea of the druid: less powerful outright, but more versatile.

 

[Byronic]

According to the preview depending on build they will have a high Dex (which would help their armour class) or they would use their Con as their AC. So when it comes to AC the Druid is at least as good as the Wizard, if not better.

 

[Vael]

The Wizard's damage boost is very impressive. Also, the main thing I've noticed is that he commands a greater area with his attack powers, even low level wizards can blast 5x5 squares, something Druids can't. I like the Druid, but the Wizard is still quite competitive as a controller.

 

[fba827]

(it's already been said) the biggest factors going for the wizard are the increased area of effect, as well as the ability modifier bonus to damage (it may not seem like a lot, but add that to the multiple enemies and it is a good amount) -- so while both druid and wizard could get rid of minions, the wizard can actually start biting away at chucks of hp from enemies (and lots of enemies at that).