• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

D&D 4E 5e: dialing it to 4e

Ok now that we have seen the DMG tactical module and had a few months to grok the system, has anyone given thoughts on how to make 5e closer emulate 4e than it does out of the box? what options would you pick from the DMG? how to handle encounter based resets of spells? anyone working on this?

any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thanks
 

log in or register to remove this ad

FireLance

Legend
I recently developed an "Elite" character template that gives a 5e character more hit dice and hit points, a small pool of "encounter" powers and more ability score increases/feats. The target power level is about two standard 5e characters of the same level.

I posted it in the House Rules forum here. For ease of reference, I've also put it in the SBLOCK below.

[SBLOCK=4e-Style "Elite" Characters for 5e]This is an attempt to create an "elite" template that could be applied to 5e characters to make them more like 4e characters. Specifically, it adds more hit points and hit dice for increased durability in fights and over the adventuring day, and more complexity, flexibility and power through the addition of "encounter" powers and more opportunities for feats or ability score increases.

The objective is to create a more durable character (each "elite" character should be the equivalent of about two characters of the same level) to facilitate smaller parties and solo play, and to create the option of having longer, 4e-style encounters where the PCs (and occasionally, the monsters) could be hard pressed, but then rally and turn the tide, without tinkering with the normal level progression.

Elite Characters

Hit Dice and Hit Points

An elite character gains one additional hit die per character level. In addition, an elite character gains bonus hit dice (which do not increase his hit points) equal to one quarter his base hit dice times his Constitution bonus, rounded down. [Note: This is to increase the PC's longer-term endurance and parallels the 4E approach of one additional healing surge per point of Constitution bonus.] A multiclassed character determines the bonus hit dice for each hit die type separately.

An elite character gains maximum hit points for both his hit dice at first level, but his Constitution bonus to hit points is only applied once per level. Hence, a first-level paladin with 14 Constitution has 22 hit points (20 hit points plus Constitution bonus of 2). When he reaches 2nd level, he gains 2d10 (or 11) + 2 hit points. [Note: This is to parallel the 4E approach of making hit points due more to class and level instead of Constitution, This also helps to balance the usefulness of Constitution as an ability score since it already contributes to longer-term endurance by increasing the PC's hit dice.]

Elite Actions

An elite character gains one Elite Action. This increases to two Elite Actions at 5th level, three Elite Actions at 11th level, and four Elite Actions at 17th level. An elite character regains all his Elite Actions after a short rest or a long rest.

An elite character gains two Elite Action options, and gains an additional Elite Action option at 5th, 11th, and 17th level. An elite character may use an Elite Action to activate any Elite Action option available to him.

Sample Elite Action Options

Avoidance: When you are hit by an attack that deals hit point damage, you may use your reaction and expend an Elite Action to reduce the damage by 1d8 hit points. If you have another similar ability, such as the Battle Master fighter's Parry maneuver, the monk's Deflect Missiles class ability, or the rogue's Uncanny Dodge class ability, you may instead expend an Elite Action when using that ability to increase the damage reduced by an additional 1d8. The damage reduced by either use of this ability increases to 2d8 at 5th level, 3d8 at 11th level, and 4d8 at 17th level.

Elite Resistance: If you fail a saving throw, you may expend an Elite Action to re-roll the saving throw, but you must use the new roll.

Elite Spellcasting: When casting a spell of a level up to one-third the highest level spell you are able to cast, you may expend an Elite Action to do so without expending a spell slot.

Extra Damage: When you hit with an attack that deals damage, you may expend an Elite Action to increase the damage of that attack by 1d8 hit points. This extra damage increases to 2d8 at 5th level, 3d8 at 11th level, and 4d8 at 17th level.

Extra Effort: When you make an attack roll, an ability check or a saving throw, you may expend an Elite Action to add 1d4 to the result of the roll. You may do so after the roll is made, but before any of its results are applied. This increases to 1d6 at 5th level, 1d8 at 11th level, and 1d10 at 17th level.

Healing Surge: As an action, you may expend an Elite Action to spend up to half your level of hit dice (minimum 1 hit die). For each hit die that you spend, you regain hit points equal to the amount rolled on the hit die plus your Constitution modifier. You may decide whether or not to spend an additional hit die after each roll.

Extra Ability Score Increase/Feat

An elite character gains an ability score increase or feat at 1st character level, and again at 5th, 11th, and 17th character level. These are in addition to the ability score increases/feats that he may gain from class levels.[/SBLOCK]
 


Nebulous

Legend
Honestly, to fully get the "feel" of 4e, I think you'd need a separate powers book to kinda rewrite the classes. I think with the OGL that's something a 3PP could dive into.
 

Pickles JG

First Post
At the risk of threadcrapping I don't think there is much point. They feel like two very distinct games & making 5e feel like 4e would need a huge amount of changes.
I think it would be a far easier task to take any aspects of 5e you like & add them into 4e games if that is the style of game you want to play.
 

Klaus

First Post
Change the short rest to 5 minutes (keep the long rest the same). This means Battlemaster Fighters can use their superiority dice in every fight, among other things.
Start each character at 3rd level. More HD, more hp, more spell slots, etc.
Wizards, Land Druids and other "neo Vancian" classes that get Arcane Recovery and their ilk can use this ability twice per day (but no more than once per short rest). This gives those classes a quasi-"E" power.
Be liberal with allowing martial characters to improvise attacks that bestow conditions, or that move enemies around the battlefield.

IMHO, that'd be as far as I'd go in emulating 4e. More than that, it'd be better to just run 4e.
 

MechaPilot

Explorer
You could also replace rolling saves with attacks against defenses; you could even just use the ability score numbers as the defenses (which would add some weight to odd ability score values). You could keep the six different saves as six different defenses, or you could consolidate them into fort/ref/will as 4e did, which I plan to do. This also helps get rid of the whole biased targeting of saves found in 5e (Dex, Con, and Wis remain the most prominent and frequent saves in the game).

I also don't care for some of the extra rolling involved in contests, so I plan on making contests into rolls against defenses, regardless of whether I use the ability scores themselves or calculated defenses.
 

jodyjohnson

Adventurer
If you really like a previous edition, I recommend just playing the previous edition.

Making 5e more like 4e is really dependent on what a group really likes about 4e.

A house-ruled 4e is probably going to be closer to preferences than trying to add too much to 5e.
 


jodyjohnson

Adventurer
Running 4e characters in 5e:

Hit Points: Once 4e characters get beyond 1st level they closely track the 5e versions. d6 classes get 4 per level. d8 get 5, d10 get 6, and d12 get 7. However 4e frontloads all your hit points from con rather than doling out possibly immense amounts over the course of 20-30 levels of play.
If you think fights took a little too long in 4e go with Con+average per level with no con bonuses. You start high and then gain hp slower.
If you think fights were fine use 4e hp (Con+Class at 1st then x/level).
For wanting short and quick go with the 5e amounts.

Abilities: bonuses haven't changed since 3.0. However capping is a return to older editions.
4e: no cap, do the 4e ability boosts as written in 5e. Possibly lower the point buy so high scores max at 16-17 after racials.
Alternately: For the less epic feel, cap scores at 19 until Paragon then no cap (you can still use the character builder).

Use 4e feats, powers, and races. Swap the half-level thing for the 5e Proficiency bonus on attacks and defenses. Switch saves to defenses or defenses to saves. If you are using the Character Builder all your numbers will be wrong but the powers will be fine. Instead of getting 2[W] at Epic give it out at Paragon for At-Wills and Basic attacks.

Use 5e armor and AC values but with modified prices. 1500gp versus 50gp plate is noteable.

Use the 4e Action economy. It is close but not quite the same as 5e.

Use 4e skill system unless you don't like the 4e system, then use the 5e system.
If you don't like that use the 3.x/PF system.

For opponents use 5e creatures, elites have Max hp and an Inspiration, solos have double max hp plus 3 inspiration (minions get minimum hp). If they aren't tough enough add their Con (double for Elite, and x4 for solo). For defenses consider adding Prof (or half prof) to defenses especially if magic items are common. Generally defenses are 10+stat+1/2 prof (-2 for brute, +2 for soldier).

Healing uses the DMG surge variant. Or just use 4e surges. Same for death rules.

Everyone uses the 4e classes, no mixing is part of the 4e feel.
 

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top