5e needs a Faiths and Avatars style book

[Irennan]

Sure, but knowing common, widespread rituals for a faith, common manifestation for deities, the duties of a cleric (not as in preaching, but as in the example that I made about the Lliiran) and so on, is good lore that can be added, and that doesn't enforce anything. It seems to me that you think personal worship is a 5e thing, while it has always been there in FR (especially for certain deities), and always stressed out by Ed Greenwood. Even then, knowing something beyond "Tyr is prayed by judges" has never been harmful. In fact, the previous deities books said things like X deity is commonly worshiped in the following ways, and proceeded to give various options (which are not, as you put it, a standardized faith, and don't preclude personal worship). However, iconic forms of worship do indeed exist, and that's not a Christian thing (a stupid example, a deity of song is iconically worshiped through song. It makes no sense for someone to worship a deity of song by forging a sword).

Furthermore, there's another important detail. What about DMs who have to paint a faith and wish to know how that faith works, how temples are structured, what the clergy does daily, and so on? Deities and faiths are an important part of worldbuilding, and that goes beyond the basic teachings of a deity (I know that you can homebrew that, but you can homebrew anything, so that's beyond the point).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

What about DMs who have to paint a faith and wish to know how that faith works, how temples are structured, what the clergy does daily, and so on?

They could use their imagination?


Or history books if they want authenticity.

 

[Mirtek]

But as soon as you create an adventure and situate it in the Forgotten Realms, or as soon as your players do something different from some other group in an Adventure path, that version of the Forgotten Realms becomes different to the canon version. So, whist some hypothetical canon FR may exist, NO ONE actually plays games there. Ergo, it is irrelevant.

Depends on whether you primarily see D&D as a Game setting to be played in or story setting to read about

Personally for me it has always been the later. I've been reading D&D for years before i played D&D and even while i was playing i still was reading it more

 

[gyor]

Several reasons:

1) Increasing antipathy towards organised religion amongst parts of the playerbase.

2) The numbers game. It has always been a feature of D&D that characters with class levels made up only a tiny fraction of the population (1 in 10,000 in the 1st edition DMG). There are simply not enough clerics in the world for everyone with a religious occupation to be one.

3) A more historically authentic approach to polytheism. It's clear from the SCAG that the writers where familiar with the religion of Ancient Rome, and where using it as their model for religion in the Forgotten Realms. Thus, worship becomes a personal matter, and temples and shrines only visited when the person wants something in particular from a god. No regular weekly services for people, no preaching, no drive to covert followers of other gods, massive organisations wielding huge amounts of secular power not the norm.

That is an over simplification of Roman Polytheism, it had deeper mysteries.

 

[Irennan]

They could use their imagination?

If that's your reasoning against a book, then RPG companies should stop producing books about lore and story altogether, and just put up mechanics with no narrative. Is this book *needed*? Well, no. Then again, are so many adventure paths needed? No. This is about storytelling, nearly nothing is strictly needed, yet there are still unneeded books out there. On a side note, a couple years ago, Mearls expressed his personal interest in a deities book. Even though he wasn't speaking for WotC, I wouldn't entirely rule such a book out. Ofc, if it happens, it will probably be half lore, half something else.

Or history books if they want authenticity.

Yeah, history books will be so useful for an authentic representation of the Mystran faith...

 

[SkidAce]

But as soon as you create an adventure and situate it in the Forgotten Realms, or as soon as your players do something different from some other group in an Adventure path, that version of the Forgotten Realms becomes different to the canon version. So, whist some hypothetical canon FR may exist, NO ONE actually plays games there. Ergo, it is irrelevant.

Its not black and white, right or wrong.

Of course canon isn't 100% identical across campaigns. As soon as I create one NPC, the campaigns are different. I say "so what"?

I may still have a desire to have shared backstory and canon reflect in my world, and have that shared info be as close as possible to a cohesive whole, a frame of reference if you will.

Ergo, the shared lore is relevant.

We don't win anything by telling people who like canon, "Ah hah, ipso facto etc, there is no canon...". It isn't helpful.




I hope you do not take offense, as your logic is sound, and technically you are 100% correct.

 

[MichaelSomething]

If that's your reasoning against a book, then RPG companies should stop producing books about lore and story altogether, and just put up mechanics with no narrative.

They tried that with 4th Edition, and we all know how that turned out!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yeah, history books will be so useful for an authentic representation of the Mystran faith...

"Authenticity" is not the same as "true". If you want to know how people behave when they live in a polytheistic culture, look at a history*.


*NB also applies to monotheism.



Mystra is a special case, and falls well outside the FR focused book proposed in the original post. A Mystra campaign setting book would need to deal with divinity in that case, since it is something player characters can aspire too. I would be very much in favour of that.


Indeed a book with suggestions for clerics in non-standard settings (Atheist, Monotheist, Animist etc) would be far more useful than the regurgitation of FR polytheism proposed by the OP.

 

[cbwjm]

"Authenticity" is not the same as "true". If you want to know how people behave when they live in a polytheistic culture, look at a history*.


*NB also applies to monotheism.



Mystra is a special case, and falls well outside the FR focused book proposed in the original post. A Mystra campaign setting book would need to deal with divinity in that case, since it is something player characters can aspire too. I would be very much in favour of that.


Indeed a book with suggestions for clerics in non-standard settings (Atheist, Monotheist, Animist etc) would be far more useful than the regurgitation of FR polytheism proposed by the OP.

Are you confusing Mystara the D&D basis setting with Mystra the FR goddess?

 

[Irennan]

"Authenticity" is not the same as "true". If you want to know how people behave when they live in a polytheistic culture, look at a history*.


*NB also applies to monotheism.

How does this help with the point I made originally, though? We already know that in FR people pay homage to all the gods of their pantheon (unless you're drow, then the only logical option is to focus on only one of the gods of that pantheon), and pray to them for different aspects and events of their lives. However, history books aren't going to be very useful to someone who wants to paints a fantasy faith, and wants examples of the daily doings of that faith--especially the clergy (again, I don't mean preaching, but their activities)--their temples, common rituals, etc...

Mystra is a special case, and falls well outside the FR focused book proposed in the original post. A Mystra campaign setting book would need to deal with divinity in that case, since it is something player characters can aspire too. I would be very much in favour of that.


Indeed a book with suggestions for clerics in non-standard settings (Atheist, Monotheist, Animist etc) would be far more useful than the regurgitation of FR polytheism proposed by the OP.

While I would too be in favor to a book about gods, religions, and divinity in all settings, including the non-standard ones, I said "the Mystran faith" as an example of a FR faith (that of Mystra, the FR goddess of magic. Although Mystra and Mystara are quite easy to confuse when you read the word, so maybe I should have used another deity).