D&D 5E 5E underwater thoughts

tglassy

Adventurer
It's not 'turning' it into steam. This isn't flavor, it's physics.

A fireball creates an explosion of heat so hot it ignites the atmosphere around a certain area. A firebolt creates a small spot of heat which ignites the atmosphere around a small point, which then is launch against a person or object. If it hits an object that is flammable, that thing lights on fire.

Throw a firebolt into a pool, and it'll hit the pool, hiss loudly, and steam will come off.

Throw a firebolt under water, the magic will fly forward, but the fire itself will be suppressed. That doesn't mean it isn't hot enough to ignite air, just that water doesn't ignite. So, you're throwing a ball of heat, which leaves a trail of bubbles in its wake, making the bubbles the only indication that the heat is coming.

Throw a fireball underwater, and you get a larger stream of bubbles, which then explodes, creating a concussion under the waves, as well as an area of not just boiling water, but rolling boiling water, effectively flash cooking everything in a 20 radius SPHERE. Not a circle, but a sphere, because now you are dealing with 3 dimensions, not two.

This is just physics. Like Cold magic, Fire magic would be arguably MORE powerful underwater than it is in air.

It may, however, reduce the distance fire spells are effective, depending on how the magic works. In the air, a firebolt doesn't need a fuel source to fly across 120 feet, which means it provides its own fuel source, and the flame doesn't diminish as it flies 120 feet, so it is magically sustained throughout the entire distance. This should be the same in the water. It is a ball of magically created heat, that is then sent across the water. The water does not douse it, because it is sustained through a magical fuel source.

Even Produce Flame would still work. Look at underwater welding, which is a thing. The flame still appears,even underwater where there is no oxygen. That's because it is not an oxygen flame, but from a different fuel source altogether. It would be the same with magic.


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Yaarel

He Mage
My intention was to homebrew fishy variants of all the existing races.

Personally, I would avoid ‘fishy’ variants. That kind of design symmetry seems forced at best, the result of a mass shapechanging spell if it did happen, and maybe cheesy at worst.

I dont even use Aquatic Elves for this reason. In the past I used humansized Nixies instead. Tritons seem a decent option too.

Similarly, I would cringe if there were ‘firey’ variants of every race.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
A fireball creates an explosion of heat ...

To be fair. The Fireball spell description fails to say an explosion of ‘heat’.

Fireball explicitly says it is an explosion of ‘flame’.

In my ruling, ‘flame’ and ‘fire’ is nonfunctional underwater.

Similarly, the Burning Hands spell describes a thin sheet of ‘flames’. Likewise nonfunctional underwater.

If an other DM wanted to interpret this as not-flame, I wouldnt complain, but I wouldnt do it.


Heh, its like trying to light a match underwater.
 

tglassy

Adventurer
To be fair, where does the rules say fire, or flame, is not functional underwater? A blowtorch works just fine underwater.

You can rule whatever you want, but physics disagrees with you.


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tglassy

Adventurer
A flame is simply a chemical reaction. Water is not the "opposite" of flame. Normal fire, which is a chemical reaction between carbon and oxygen, requires oxygen, fuel, and heat. Remove any of those and it doesn't work.

But a freaking magical fire conjured from a flame bolt spell doesn't need those things. All it requires to work is Verbal and Somatic components. It doesn't require air, it doesn't require fuel, and it doesn't require heat. It generates all those things. A Burning Hands spell just requires that you hold your hands up with thumbs touching and fingers spread and say the magic word, and "Flame" erupts. Nothing noted about whether there is oxygen or fuel, or even heat present, because the only one of those three that would be present would be oxygen. It, at the very least, creates the other two, and as far as the "Rules" go, may as well create the oxygen as well. The rules don't define a "Flame" as being something that is negated by water. Physics does that.

Toss an incendiary grenade in the water, and it would burn just fine, because they're usually made from phosphorus or magnesium, which explode when touching water, and will continue to burn even while underwater. And the Magical flames create their OWN fuel, so who's to say a smart wizard didn't alter a spell so the fuel source for the fire was a magical equivalent of magnesium rather than carbon, which needs oxygen to burn?


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tglassy

Adventurer
Sure, but unless your setting is in the Plane of Water, the ocean is not magical water. And even if it was, if you mix water and fire, you don't get nothing, as is suggested by "water negates fire". You get steam. Hence the Steam Mephits. Beings of elemental water and fire mixed.


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Yaarel

He Mage
Toss an incendiary grenade in the water, and it would burn just fine, because they're usually made from phosphorus or magnesium, which explode when touching water, and will continue to burn even while underwater. And the Magical flames create their OWN fuel, so who's to say a smart wizard didn't alter a spell so the fuel source for the fire was a magical equivalent of magnesium rather than carbon, which needs oxygen to burn?

I was thinking about underwater explosives too. Bombs, depth charges, grenades, etcetera.

The thing is. There is no *heat* spreading out from these underwater detonations. The type of damage is strictly the result of the concussive shockwave, in other words, Thunder damage with zero Fire damage.

Because the Fireball explosion lacks enough strength to cause a shockwave, it also has no shockwave underwater.
 


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