D&D 5E 5e's stumbles

[AverageCitizen]

Those threads can be good if the tone is positive. If it's pointing out a problem and positing solutions, or requesting fixes. I love those threads. Both reading other people's fixes or suggesting my own.
And threads about larger design trends (such as the ubiquity of magic) are bigger issues, and worthy of discussion. They're discussion points and conversations.

But threads like this one aren't about fixes, they're just about the complaining. Picking nits. It's neither productive nor a discussion. It's not even long enough to qualify as a rant-blog.

The most negative part of this thread, by far, is the people coming in here and pooh poohing its existence. If you are tired of this conversation, you don't have to participate. I haven't had it yet. So far, people have been relating and contrasting their experiences and having a good time. Several solutions to problems have even been offered, even though I don't think that is a necessary part of a worthwhile discussion.

Or those who didn't fully read a rule/ spell/ power/ feat.

That is the worst. So many of the threads that condemned 5e as broken from the start were based on complete ignorance.

 

[Sacrosanct]

The most negative part of this thread, by far, is the people coming in here and pooh poohing its existence..

Um....the most negative thing about this thread is the negativity. It's sort of how the word is defined in the dictionary.

 

[Jester David]

Yeah, except Mearls said you can play the bagpipes with perform. I don't get it.

Ability checks/skills vs tools are basically unusable untrained vs usable trained skills.

Anyone can attempt an ability check. Anyone can try and climb a cliff, forage in the woods, or sing a song. And you can attempt those skills without special equipment.
Not everyone can use rope and pitons, navigate via map and compass, or play the bagpipes. You need to be trained. Even if you can't sing (aka are trained in Perform) you can play an instrument. And you need the equipment; no matter how awesome you are with a flute, if you don't have one you can't apply it's bonus.

If you're trained in both, the numbers are the same, so using either Perform or the tool proficiency confers the same bonus to the roll.
The exception being expertise. It seems weird to penalize a bard for their check because they're modifying a Charima check with a tool proficiency rather than their perform skill. So in that rare case, pick the higher bonus.

 

[delericho]

Yeah, except Mearls said you can play the bagpipes with perform. I don't get it.

Fair enough. It's not my fault if they can't keep the rules of their own game consistent.

(FWIW, my ruling would be that you can't play the bagpipes with Perform, and more than you could use the tool proficiency when singing.)

Although I did expect the slack to be picked up by the "WE NEED 5E PDFS, IT'S 2016 FOR PETE'S SAKE!" clarion call... but you've all disappointed me on that one.

Now that you mention it...

 

[SkidAce]

I found this thread even handed and interesting, until the conversations discussing the thread itself began, which sadly....

I have just contributed to...doh!

 

[Jester David]

The most negative part of this thread, by far, is the people coming in here and pooh poohing its existence.

You make a post saying you like 5e then rattle off a laundry list of complaints, that is solely, 100% negative. Nothing positive comes out of that. Theres's not even an attempt at an insult sandwich where you frame complaints with positives. Or a request to help understand the odd mechanics or the reason for the design. No "explain why they changed monster statblocks" it "why do tool proficiencies exist?"
The sole point of this thread is to crap on something you claim to enjoy.
Nothing that in any way makes the game or forums better comes out of posts like the first. And I'm chosinh to reply/participate to *hopefully* maybe turn a future post into something less negative.

Okay, you have problems. Fine. You *need* to type out your complaints as a form of catharsis. Cool.
But that's what http://screamintothevoid.com is for.

 

[Imaro]

Oh, man. Probably not going to happen. I have no idea where I read it. So, you can dismiss it if you want, since it doesn't make sense anyway, but he was talking about how Perform would be used to make a moving, emotional performance on the instrument and the instrument proficiency would be used to put on a dazzling display of technical skill.

I guess it works, since in 5e you can hand-wave a lot of character details that used to have crunch. Like now, if your character was a blacksmith, he can just be a blacksmith if he feels like it.

So maybe the idea is if your character plays the bagpipes FROM THE HEART, not like the stiffs up at the Bagpiping Academy, you take Perfmormance and fill in the detail that it is bagpiping. Then when straps on his tartan leg-warmers and plays for that scholarship at the Bagpiping Academy, you dump a bucket of water on him and roll Charisma (Performance), not Charisma (Bagpipe proficiency). They will surely be moved by his passion.

In my games Perform is the set and a particular instrument tool proficiency is a more specialized (but deeper) subset... In other words someone who has Performance is generally trained in Performing which includes musical instruments in a general way while the person with the tool proficiency is more specialized (could only play their instrument in a performance) but has deeper knowledge... can read music, spot an instrument of superior or even magical craftsmanship, care for properly and repair an instrument, and even, given the time and materials construct one...

 

[AverageCitizen]

Um....the most negative thing about this thread is the negativity. It's sort of how the word is defined in the dictionary.

My assertion is that the criticism of the thread is much more negative than the criticism of 5e contained in the thread. Please stop treating me like I am an aggressor or an ignoramus.

 

[AverageCitizen]

You make a post saying you like 5e then rattle off a laundry list of complaints, that is solely, 100% negative. Nothing positive comes out of that. Theres's not even an attempt at an insult sandwich where you frame complaints with positives. Or a request to help understand the odd mechanics or the reason for the design. No "explain why they changed monster statblocks" it "why do tool proficiencies exist?"
The sole point of this thread is to crap on something you claim to enjoy.
Nothing that in any way makes the game or forums better comes out of posts like the first. And I'm chosinh to reply/participate to *hopefully* maybe turn a future post into something less negative.

Okay, you have problems. Fine. You *need* to type out your complaints as a form of catharsis. Cool.
But that's what http://screamintothevoid.com is for.

Alright, fine. My conversation apparently made you feel bad so you've come and made me feel bad and now we all feel bad. Next you can pretend you don't feel bad so I'm the only one who feels bad and then you win the thread. GG.

 

[AverageCitizen]

I found this thread even handed and interesting, until the conversations discussing the thread itself began, which sadly....

I have just contributed to...doh!

I know, right? I hate when I acknowledge it. I try to stay above it and then I have to respond and it just ruins the whole thing. Oh well, there's always next time.