5th Edition and the Female Demographic

[Kaodi]

This could be a very short thread, but it is a perennial topic that I think might bear some consideration in the early stages of 5e's development.

Essentially there are only two questions I am going to ask initially:

1) Is there anything that could be done to make D&D more attractive to a) women and b) girls?

2) Should anything be done to make D&D more attractve to a) women and b) girls?

I differentiate between women and girls because I think they are distinct capture points, I believe. Usually when we think about things lke sexism in D&D (in ridiculously long threads that are eventually closed) we think about all of the things an adult, discerning woman might find objectionable about D&D (or at least that is how I recall it), but this ignores the fact that D&D often catches on with guys when they are younger, and if D&D were ever to be equally prevalent in men and women, women too would have to start early, their tastes at those ages being appealed to.

Personally, I am not sure about the answers to these questions. Perhaps it is even sexist is some way to think that essentially there is any difference it what draws people to D&D. I kind of think they can be answered in a weak affirmative, at the very least. At least in the case of women. It is possible, given the way girls and boys are socialized differently, that the sort of changes you would need to make it more appealing to girls (as opposed to women) would be drastic enough as to weaken the resemblence to D&D that current players expect.

In any case, I suppose we can have at it, though I expect everyone can engage the topic and maintain civility...

 

[Mercurius]

Given that I am neither an a) women or a b) girl, I can only say so much about the subject. But I think it is a worthy discussion to have.

First of all, the fact that D&D has never drawn a huge female audience may not as much be something intrinsic to the medium as it is a failing on the part of its publishers, both in terms of marketing and design. Why do I say that? Because, as far as I understand it, fantasy literature is just as popular if not more so with females; it is science fiction that is much more popular with males. Why shouldn't this translate to RPGs? The fact that it doesn't at all seems like something to look into and may have something to do with both the image/reputation of RPGs and the goal or primary focus of RPGs.

I'm also going to posit something that hopefully won't offend anyone (at least no more than a slight tickling irk). It is my sense that RPGs attract nerdy and non-nerdy males alike but only, or mainly, nerdy females but not non-nerdy females. Replace "nerdy" with "geeky" or "gamerish" and you get the point - I'm talking about folks for whom Geekery is a lifestyle, those who inhabit Geekdom. There are plenty of otherwise "normal" or at least nondescript males that play D&D--I should know as I'm one of them (Actually, I'm far from "normal" but my appearance and mannerisms do not give people any reason to think that I have a bookshelf and a half of RPGs sequestered in my loft office, or that I spend too much time on forums such as EN World, or that I play in a regular D&D group).

So my point is this: I don't see RPGs appealing to females that aren't seriously into other aspect of Geek Culture; why that is, I'm not entirely sure. It may be that "playing" is more acceptable in our (Western, especially American) culture than it is for females, at least in the form that RPGs take. Now the fact that Geek Culture has trickled throughout the mainstream may soften this somewhat, but I just don't see many females--particularly beyond their adolescence--picking up a book with a Dragonborn on it.

How to attract more females? That is hard to say. I'd love to hear from some of the females on EN World. But again, it may be that the "gamer stigma" is more daunting to a female than a male. I have found, however, that in the few times not that I've played an RPG with a "non-nerdy" female, they have not only enjoyed the experience but approached the game in a refreshingly un-jaded way; this may have had more to do with their lack of experience than their gender, however.

I've got to go cook the Tofurky....more later.

 

[the Jester]

The art, as always gets mentioned. 4e has been fairly good about this, dragonboobies aside, and there have been great examples of art that shows empowered females (as opposed to objectified ones) going back at least as far as 1e (remember the awesomely practical-looking female ranger on the cover of Dragon magazine?), though it definitely seems easier to find cheesecake D&D art earlier in the game's history.

Keeping the mechanics even for females helps (no 1e-style "females top out at a lower Str than males" restrictions).

What really helps is when the groups of gamers a prospective female gamer encounters are welcoming and don't come across like a bunch of socially inept potential stalkers. (While that's the exaggerated case, those groups do exist.) If a female gamer has to put up with constant clumsy attempts to hit on her from everyone in the group, she's liable to run out of patience very quickly, and it can really spoil her impression of the game itself.

 

[Insight]

Well, I'm doing MY part

A few months back, my niece-in-law asked me - out of the blue - if I would teach her how to play D&D. It turns out that her boyfriend and his friends were playing but didn't want to bother to teach her the game. Now, I've created a simple campaign set in the Nentir Vale (using as much published stuff as I can, to save time).

I'm not sure that the game needs to be changed to attract female gamers. The fundamental question that must be answered before the initial question can be addressed is whether RPGing is something females want to do. In my case, I had no idea my niece wanted to learn to play and I was pleasantly surprised and willing to teach. But surely, that is a rarity. If D&D is something the boys do, there will be SOME interest from the females, but I don't know that WOTC can do a whole lot to convince those uninterested in RPGing to give it a try.

If WOTC does want to attract female gamers, they need to create a gateway drug. I know WOTC has tried this before and failed. They need to determine what about D&D appeals to female players and then build their "entry game" around those concepts.

 

[Morrus]

I don't think it's anything to do with the game itself, but rather those who play it. The change needs to be made in the way some (by no means all) male players view and interact with those of the opposite gender. The biggest issue is sexism on the part of the players, not in the ruleset.

The art probably has an effect, but it's a lot better now than it used to be in that respect. I'm not sure if that's even a major issue these days (I don't think I've seen a chainmail bikini illustration in an RPG book for a long time).

 

[mudbunny]

I don't think it's anything to do with the game itself, but rather those who play it. The change needs to be made in the way some (by no means all) male players view and interact with those of the opposite gender. The biggest issue is sexism on the part of the players, not in the ruleset.

This.

More than anything else, the attitude of the players around the table will determine whether a female will want to continue playing once exposed. And that is not really something that WotC can enforce or change. While they can provide direction to it by ensuring that as much sexism as possible is removed from their works, they can't do anything about the attitudes of those around the table. That is 100% up to the other people around the table to speak up and say something.

 

[Viking Bastard]

The hobby seems to be headed in the right direction in this regard, I think. Locally, there were hardly any girl gamers around a decade ago, but now, among the younger crowd, they seem to be gaining considerably on the boys.

But with that said, women just don't seem to get as worked up over it in that obsessive nerd way and hardly any of them seem to ever DM.

 

[GSHamster]

Something I found interesting in the above responses is that they all seem to assume male involvement in the gaming group.

What would encourage a group of only girls/women--without men--to play D&D?

The thing is that you tend to game at first with your initial circle of friends, especially in school. And by and large initial circle of friends, especially in middle school and high school tend to be dominated by one gender.

I think to really see D&D become popular with women, we'd have to see D&D being picked up by groups of female friends. And not being introduced to it through the men in their life.

Honestly, I have no idea how that could be accomplished. Maybe piggy-backing of a strong IP who's fans are primarily female?

 

[Crothian]

They just need to do what White Wolf did 20 years ago.

 

[Dandu]

Emo vampire angst?