A 4E magic item conundrum

[Falstaff]

I used to feel the same way, ie. that there should be a penalty for dying. But in recent years I've changed a lot of opinions, especially when it comes to RPG's and gaming.

So now I'm of the opinion that new characters start with exactly the XP and equipment values of the previous character. If there is any penalty, it's that the deceased's items go to his family, not the rest of the PC's.

Me too. Back when I ran AD&D if a player's PC died, his new character started at first level, unless the rest of the party was above 7th, in which case I'd allow him to create a new character at 3rd. No magic items whatsoever.

Now, I'm thinking like you. I try to remind myself that this is a game and that people play games to have fun.

The 4E DMG states on page 30 that when a PC dies, the player should be allowed to create a new PC at the same level as the rest of the PCs and with similar gear.

I'm cool with that.

Now, granted, if a player is playing stupidly and making ridiculous decisions that result in his PC dying I'd be a little more unfriendly as a DM.

 

[ExploderWizard]

The 4E DMG states on page 30 that when a PC dies, the player should be allowed to create a new PC at the same level as the rest of the PCs and with similar gear.

I'm cool with that.

Thats the kicker right there. Similar gear in this case wouldn't be 3 magic items each because the deceased character's didn't have that in the first place. I agree that a new PC should join the party at equal effectiveness. What "equal effectiveness" means will still vary from game to game.

 

[Falstaff]

Thats the kicker right there. Similar gear in this case wouldn't be 3 magic items each because the deceased character's didn't have that in the first place. I agree that a new PC should join the party at equal effectiveness. What "equal effectiveness" means will still vary from game to game.

Yeah, you're right.

In Morrus' case, I think if his second level characters had been awarded magic items as shown on the Treasure Parcel tables there wouldn't be as much of an issue about the new players and magic items.

However, in his unique case, where he's diverted from the standard rules, he'll need to adjudicate his ruling in regards to the lower number of magic items his second level PCs had/have. I don't have a good suggestion, but what some of the other posters have suggested seems reasonable.

Maybe just stick to one item each equal to their level (first) and one or two potions. Maybe an extra ritual scroll?

Good luck.

 

[vazanar]

Sure, you can do it that way. But I still argue that the DMG doesn't explain the game that way. My suggestion - if you want to run a game that's easier to maintain - is to follow the guidelines as they're presented in the DMG.

If you reverse engineer Keep on the Shadowfell you'll see that the Treasure Parcel awards follow the DMG exactly.

The keep of the Shadowfell doesn't really follow the parcel system, since those treasures aren't neccesarily great for a party going through it. However, one would expect that from a standard module.

I dont think 2nd level characters bieng short by an item or two should have a huge impact. With only 4 magic items given via the parcel system, the party doesnt have that many more +1 or abilities. Id imagine by 4th or 5th level lack of magic items will be a bigger problem.

Making a replacement character should have no more magic items than a current character.

 

[Falstaff]

The keep of the Shadowfell doesn't really follow the parcel system, since those treasures aren't neccesarily great for a party going through it. However, one would expect that from a standard module.

Actually, it does. Unless, of course, my calculations are off (which is highly likely).

At the point where it mentions the characters might have enough XP to level up, each of the Parcels have been awarded.

 

[Dragonbait]

So we go from a party with 2 magic items to a party with (2 + 3x4) = 14 magic items. Quite the power boost! Death, it seems, has proved to be quite lucrative!

Same as 3E in the RAW (see making characters above 1st-level). Every time I've seen a character made above 1st that can purchase magical items, they always have the best stuff to suit their character's needs.
It's how we have a character that was made at 11th reach a Cha 30 when all other characters who started at 5th are stil trying to chug away and purchase those stat-boosting items.
It's a shame that they have yet to fix this issue.

 

[billd91]

So, they're generating their new characters and I get a call; apparently the rules state that when generating a character above first level, you get three magic items.

So we go from a party with 2 magic items to a party with (2 + 3x4) = 14 magic items. Quite the power boost! Death, it seems, has proved to be quite lucrative!

You should ignore the rule. It's intended, I suspect, for generating quick magical gear for a PC several levels into the game. Going by the treasure parcels, you wouldn't even generate enough teasure to supply those 4 character with 3 magic items until you've had another 4 levels worth of adventuring. And even then, the characters doing the adventuring have a decidedly mixed bag of stuff more than 1 level lower and more than 1 level higher than the characters' current levels.

I'd have them make up the characters as normal as if starting from first level with a bonus amount of cash so they could have a little extra or more advanced gear. And encourage them to get on their knees and thank the survivor for saving the magic items the party did get so that no major treasure was lost...

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Actually, it does. Unless, of course, my calculations are off (which is highly likely).

At the point where it mentions the characters might have enough XP to level up, each of the Parcels have been awarded.

You missed the important part of his post: "since those treasures aren't neccesarily great for a party going through it". Which is correct. KotS' items are only "correct" assuming you're running the default characters through it, and there are not alternative suggestions offered (also, I think one or maybe two of the items have incorrect stats, but that's a whole other story).

Presumably H2 and H3 etc. are written so you can place items appropriate to your PCs. If not, that seems kind of wierd.

 

[Jhaelen]

A party of five second level characters is supposed to have - as a group - 1 level 5 magic item, 1 level 4 magic item, 1 level 3 magic item, and 1 level 2 magic item (plus some coins, gems, and maybe a potion or two).

This makes sure that those second level characters are prepared to take on higher level challenges.

It is my understanding that distribution of magic items as shown on the Treasure Parcel tables is very important to follow less the game becomes unbalanced.

I'm honestly confused. How does this change the fact that a party starting at level 2 will have three items each using the DMG method, while a party that reached level 2 by starting at level 1 will have a total of four item, as per the parcel system?

What you're saying is correct of course, but how is it relevant for the OP's problem?

 

[Falstaff]

I'm honestly confused. How does this change the fact that a party starting at level 2 will have three items each using the DMG method, while a party that reached level 2 by starting at level 1 will have a total of four item, as per the parcel system?

What you're saying is correct of course, but how is it relevant for the OP's problem?

I have no idea.

Just kidding.

My post is relevant because had Morrus' player's characters had the correct amount of magic items for second level characters, they most likely would not have died.

Now, how does your post asking me if my post is relevant to the original poster relevant to the OP?