D&D 5E A Matter Of Initiative

[FarBeyondC]

A brief and (hopefully) simple question for the disjunct:

By default rules, is starting combat on an initiative other than the highest initiative allowed?

Bonus:

In what situations would you consider it reasonable do to such a thing?

 

[Scott Steven Bell]

Not sure why you would change the order. If someone reacts faster than someone else they go first. I mean Ive held my atatck to let enemies get closer but thats about it.

 

[robus]

A brief and (hopefully) simple question for the disjunct:

By default rules, is starting combat on an initiative other than the highest initiative allowed?

Bonus:

In what situations would you consider it reasonable do to such a thing?

The initiative order is the initiative order so no you shouldn't start at some arbitrary point.

However I think you're really asking about when initiative is rolled. And I generally like to roll once something has actually initiated combat. Like a player has said they're going to take a swing at a monster, or the wizard invariably does something destructive. Or it can happen on the NPC side too if they're given reason to fight.

Then I let the initiating action begin and roll for initiative. If the person is at the top then great. If they're not then their impulse was detected and their opponents are able to react first. Surprise rules are brought to bear depending on whether there rising tension beforehand or not.

But no - the initiative order is maintained.

 

[LordEntrails]

Don't know the what the rules say. But my group starts at something other than the highest in some cases.

For instance, on a round in which the two sides are on opposite sides of a door. We start the round (effectively) with the initiative of the player that opens the door.

 

[HomegrownHydra]

Not sure why you would change the order. If someone reacts faster than someone else they go first. I mean Ive held my atatck to let enemies get closer but thats about it.

Once when I was running a game of 13th Age (which uses the standard d20 initiative system a la 3e/4e/5e) the party was exploring a tomb with the paladin in the lead. When he entered a room with a bunch of skeletons in it, I called for initiative rolls. The result was that the paladin had to go last despite being in the front and being fully ready for combat. This didn't make any sense in the fiction and the only justification would be to say he stumbled for some weird reason or was uncharacteristically passive, either of which would go against the type of heroic and cinematic gaming I like. I saw this as a huge system fail, so much so I immediately started looking for alternative methods.

 

[machineelf]

If my players are talking to some NPC, and then one of them suddenly pulls out a dagger and stabs the NPC, then I will have them roll initiative, and all the other players and the NPCs are surprised until the end of their turn.

Therefore, the player who did the stabbing may act before another player with a higher initiative simply because of the surprise condition on everyone else. But any PC or NPC with a higher initiative may use a reaction (because by the end of their turn they are no longer surprised and can use reactions.) But that's all pretty much by the book, and otherwise yes, everything happens in initiative order.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

If my players are talking to some NPC, and then one of them suddenly pulls out a dagger and stabs the NPC, then I will have them roll initiative, and all the other players and the NPCs are surprised until the end of their turn.

Does it work the other way?

In my experience, if the GM says, "The NPC pulls out a dagger and stabs you." then there will be howls of, "don't I get to roll Initiative?".

Or, even worse, "A crossbow bolt comes out of the darkness and hits you. You are surprised, the archer is an assassin rogue, so you take, hmmm, 45 points of damage. No, you don't get to cast shield, you were surprised."

 

[Scott Steven Bell]

Yes, surprise rounds are very tricky. I dont use them often vs. a player because of that very reason. One shot killing a player isnt fun.
On the other hand if the players go around stabbing people others will hunt them and wont be fair about it.

 

[Jester David]

If the party starts combat when one player acts, I tend to rule that's when we begin the turn order.

Everyone is ready to attack and the fighter kicks in the door. Roll initiative. The fighter gets a 12. Characters could act before the fighter, but they weren't the one that started things, and it makes zero sense that they're able to do anything before the fighter's action occurs. And it also makes zero sense that the fighter, that started the fight and initiated action, might act in the middle.

If a player has something they really want to do first, I'll ignore the above somewhat. "You're fast and can see the fighter about to act, and have time to cast bless before they can finish their thought." Because that's more fun for them.

It can get funky if everyone is aware of each other. Most often it makes sense to begin with the person that started things. I could say everyone saw them about to act, and began striking preemptively, but that 's often funky. Especially if there's a lot of combatants who shouldn't have been paying that much attention. And if they instigator rolls ass for initiative.

 

[Scott Steven Bell]

I would have him kick in the door and THEN do initiative. Often the door breaker isnt the first into a room.