D&D 3E/3.5 A more "old-school" 3.5E

[3d6]

My players have expressed interest in playing a game of D&D using rules more similar to older versions of D&D. However, the only rulebook we have in common is 3.5E, so that's probably the best starting point. I've been trying to come up with the simplest possible house rules to make 3.5E play (mechanically) more like older versions, and here's what I've come up with.

• No feats.
• No skills, except for rogues.
• No normal multiclassing.
• A character can have two classes, using the gestalt rules from UA, but XP is split up between both classes.
• The XP tables are exponential (1000, 2000, 4000, 8000, 16000, etc.).
• No attacks of opportunity.
• People declare their actions at the start of the round, then initititve is rolled to determine the order the actions are resolved.
• To generate ability scores, roll 3d6 six times and assign them as they choose, the ability modifiers are 3 (-3), 4-5 (-2), 6-8 (-1), 9-12 (+0), 13-15 (+1), 16-17 (+2), 18 (+3)
• Instead of granting bonuses to ability scores, races improve ability modifiers; for example, an orc gets +1 Strength modifier, -1 Intelligence modifier, -1 Charisma modifier (this change is mainly so I don't have to create a big table to find ability modifiers for higher than human possible ability scores)

Does that seem like it would result in a rules system pretty similar (in a general sense) to previous versions of D&D/AD&D?

 

[Drawmack]

You just made the fighter completely useless by taking away the feats. Maybe, you should go through the feets and make up lists of "class abilities" that a character can take every third level. Fighters get to take one every third level and one every other level.

Allow skills, but no cross-class skill point assignments and all skills are trained skills.

 

[Griffith Dragonlake]

Wouldn't it be easier to just go on eBay and buy a first edition AD&D Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual? A cursory glance suggests that they go for around $5.00 + $5.00 shipping each.

Otherwise take a look at OSRIC (http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/) which is alledgedly AD&D under the Open Gaming License.

Either of these options should work much easier than trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Wouldn't it be easier to just go on eBay and buy a first edition AD&D Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual? A cursory glance suggests that they go for around $5.00 + $5.00 shipping each.

Otherwise take a look at OSRIC (http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/) which is alledgedly AD&D under the Open Gaming License.

Either of these options should work much easier than trying to reinvent the wheel.

Word.

Go for the actual 1e though, would be my suggestion. It's a bizarre system, but it has a certain appeal, for some. Either way, it will do everything you want it to, and with a kind of style all its own.


Otherwise, maybe check out Unearthed Arcana (the 3e book from WotC). Some of the rules in it would get you partway there, I think.

 

[molonel]

I would rather play 3rd Edition than 1st, but I would also rather play 1st Edition than a castrated 3rd Edition.

Just my opinion.

 

[MarauderX]

Forget AD&D 1st ed., go WAY back and get the red set.

Or you can use the Unearthed Arcana Generic Classes only in the SRD, here:

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedNewClasses.html

 

[jeffh]

Forget AD&D 1st ed., go WAY back and get the red set.

Or you can use the Unearthed Arcana Generic Classes only in the SRD, here:

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedNewClasses.html

Grrr. The red-cover basic set came AFTER 1E. The production values of each should be a dead giveaway even if you can't be bothered to check the copyright dates.

 

[kaomera]

Does that seem like it would result in a rules system pretty similar (in a general sense) to previous versions of D&D/AD&D?

Somewhat, possibly close enough for your needs (I'm assuming you will be running it with the intent of creating that "old school feel"). You will need to take a close look at magic items as well, I think; and you should limit the spells per day of spellcasting classes (and remove Cleric Domains), probably just toss out the Sorcerer altogether...

The issue is: there are at least three versions of D&D between AD&D and 3.5, each building upon all of the previous versions. Just for one thing, AD&D tops out at about 9th level or so. It still plays fine beyond that, but it's a different game at that point, much like 3.x's normal levels to Epic. At higher levels spellcasters will absolutely outshine fighter-types; the difference that keeps this (somewhat) in check in AD&D is the initiative / movement system... At higher levels the Lord is literally a meat-shield for the Wizards and High Priests. Of course, in role-playing situations (or if their castle / followers can come into play) this matters much less...

Just my 2cp...

 

[Coplen]

Wow. The OP stripped the game down even more than I would.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

If you really want your game to be "Old School" mechanically speaking then I agree with others and just go 1st Ed with cheap, used copies rather than do that kind of indiscriminate evisceration to 3E. Feats are rather ingrained in 3E as are skills. Removing both of those I just don't see how you plan to make ANYTHING that remains of 3E really work in an enjoyable manner.

The 3E rules regarding multiclassing are dangerously SANE compared to 1E. Why not just use the 1E class/race combination and level restrictions? As for XP, when I played/ran 1E we never really gave out XP for treasure. Treasure was its own reward. Our level progression was thus much slower than would otherwise have been. It's been shown that with some variation, the 1E level advancement rates are not that much different than 3E. The logarithmic progression of the 1E experience charts kept close pace with a commensurate increase in xp awards. So it's my understanding you're not gaining anything really "Old School" there.

AoO I can see you MIGHT want to drop, but there is so much about 3E combat that would have made 1E combat SO much better... Take initiative. 1E initiative and action declaration is definitely "Old School" but it's one thing that it was nice to GRADUATE from. It was clumsy, arbitarary, and just plain BROKEN. Always was.

The ability score generation definitely MUST involve rolling dice. The spread you suggest for modifiers is interesting but problematic. Not only because it then doesn't scale properly beyond 18 for those monsters that have such scores, but it means a metric buttload of tedious conversion OF EVERYTHING is in your future.

The one idea I really like is the last one - making the racial adjustment to the modifier rather than directly to the ability score. Keeps the ability scores looking... normal, while granting the same effective racial modifications.

But again - just buy some used 1E books instead. I applaud your ambition and goal, but I personally don't think that the changes you've come up with really constitutes anything that effectively represents - or even promotes what _I_ think of as "Old School" flavor.