A new campaign (now with play report)

[Manbearcat]

@Quickleaf

That looks great. It looks very much like a Bladesinger. You've got good synergy there overall. The only thing I would say is that it is almost exclusively controller. The only leader capability is the aura (which is quite a good one albeit). It should play as Controller primary and then a hybrid secondary of Skirmisher, Soldier, Leader (equal parts). If that is what you're going for then you've hit the mark dead-center.

However, the only concern I have is that you don't have a reliable Vuln Fire that you can put on enemies round in and round out so that may be an issue. You have the conditional daily (only works on targets with the correct current resisntance) and an encounter power. That may not be enough to consistently threaten your PCs with the leader effect that he has (the aura granting fire keyword to attacks). However, if they all have fire resist and are in that burst 5, then Invert Resistance should give you multiple attacks against vulnerable targets. The Flame Tongue effect is a little bit weak and unlikely to come into play. I'm personally not a big fan of "effects triggered by PCs at 0 HP" due to the limited likelihood of it manifesting and, if it does, it may possibly mean that the fight has gone very poor thus rendering its tacitcal and climactic impact inconsequential; perhaps on Bloodied instead. Or, this may be where you want to consider a minor Vuln Fire effect. You may want to playtest the encounter a few times to see how it works out. In complicated fights, I typically playtest them a few times to confirm that the synergies I've put together pan out on more than just paper.

Another way to deal with that might be have the fight have fire hazards/terrain that inflict Vuln fire. With the right mix of blocking terrain, and cohort roles, you've got yourself a great looking, climactic boss fight.

 

[Manbearcat]

One thing he is lacking is ways to deal with action denial. Maybe I could tack something onto his flight power that shakes off a condition?

Here is the thing. Right now you are pretty close to the upper threshold of resources and potency for an Elite generally and a level 14 Elite specifically. You really don't see too many Elites with abilities to deal with action denial and if you do, its typically an Encounter Power Immediate Action. You may want to consider changing the Encounter Power to a defensive one if that is your need. You wouldn't lose the flavor of the NPC at all by doing that.

Have you considered creating an alternative Solo incarnation of the NPC? You can make him an of-level Solo for the PCs and make the encounter's upper threshold at L + 5 with his guards, minions, hazards/terrain etc. Perhaps there is some sort of Arcane/Draconic Power Chanelling Artifact in his lair. A successful Skill Challenge could turn him into his Elite Form.

If you want the ability to deal with action denial (meaning you really want this guy to be important and powerful), then Solo is probably the way to go.

 

[Quickleaf]

Here is the thing. Right now you are pretty close to the upper threshold of resources and potency for an Elite generally and a level 14 Elite specifically. You really don't see too many Elites with abilities to deal with action denial and if you do, its typically an Encounter Power Immediate Action. You may want to consider changing the Encounter Power to a defensive one if that is your need. You wouldn't lose the flavor of the NPC at all by doing that.

Have you considered creating an alternative Solo incarnation of the NPC? You can make him an of-level Solo for the PCs and make the encounter's upper threshold at L + 5 with his guards, minions, hazards/terrain etc. Perhaps there is some sort of Arcane/Draconic Power Chanelling Artifact in his lair. A successful Skill Challenge could turn him into his Elite Form.

If you want the ability to deal with action denial (meaning you really want this guy to be important and powerful), then Solo is probably the way to go.

Hmm, he is definitely not meant to be equal to a dragon, so I'll try to keep him elite. It's OK with me if he is at the upper threshold of power for an elite, as long as it doesn't seem like I'm breaking the system or making an "unfair" build.

I was looking at the NPC guidelines in the DMG and they suggest 1 at-will, 2 encounter powers, 1 daily, and 2 utilities for a paragon NPC. That's pretty much what I did, with the addition of an extra at-will, a multi attack typical of elites, and traits appropriate to the NPC.

 

[Quickleaf]

Play Report #2 (11/23/12)

The bard was dead. The barbarian and the wizard were bleeding out. Only a bloodied fighter and paladin were still standing against the red dragon's onslaught. The dragon had bitten and flung them, clawed them to shreds, breathed on them, created a lava hazard, and in a particularly devious move flew up to 50 feet and let itself fall on to the PCs. They had depleted nearly all their resources and things were looking dire. However, the paladin still had a few "lay on hands" remaining and was able to bring the unconscious party members back into the fight. This proved to be the edge the PCs needed so that when the severely wounded dragon tried to flee they were able to bring it down. The fighter dealt the killing stroke in the air, leaping from his hippogriff to do so.

Everyone on the ground watched with amazement as the fighter climbed off the dragon's corpse and pulled his swords out of its scaly hide. Hive fives went around the table, and after the party tended to the wounded, a dragon evisceration promptly followed. "What does a dragon heart do?" "Can I save it's eyes in case I can make an orb later?" "Is dragon meat edible?"

A dragon steak cook out followed

After being summoned before the royal court and weighing their options, the party chose to accept the king's offer to claim all the dragon's treasure in Dragon Mountain - apparently the red dragon's former lair - with the crown taking a 5% tax. They also hoped to gain some insight in Dragon Mountain as to what prompted the dragon's attack. The king provided them with riding horses, pack mules, a wagon, supplies and rations (supplemented by dragon steaks). Once the wizard raised their fallen companion (on the King's generous dime), they set forth with the recovering bard in the wagon. They resisted the urge to gag the bard and write shameful things on his forehead with evercoal.....

Crossing the Misty Downs they came across (random encounter) peasants in a land dispute. After the great wizard Fastilbras' tower was sacked by the dragon, the town of Inverness - which the wizard had governed - had fallen into chaos. Monsters once kept by the wizard ran amok and there was no law. Refugees fled to the countryside and had come into conflict with a stodgy old farmer. The party's paladin found an equitable solution that got them to put aside their differences and work together, with the peasants working for the farmer to earn their keep. Chatting with some of the peasants the PCs expressed their intention to seek out Dragon Mountain. Several peasants made a holy sign over themselves to ward off the dead, implying it was a doomed venture. One peasant warned them that Harker's Ferry, the village nearest to the mountain, was overrun by trolls.

At night, while the party camped in the Misty Downs, several of them who stood watch heard ghostly women singing on a distant mist-shrouded hill....but there was no random encounter like they were expecting.

Stopping in Harker's Ferry to either get an inn or learn more about the trolls, the party concealed their weapons when they saw that trolls indeed controlled the village and keep. Tattered banners of a dragon's claw and a burning flame hung around the village. Crow cages with rotting corpses confirmed the party's sinking suspicions that the village was utterly oppressed. The paladin gathered intelligence from the village priest, learning that the war troll leader Venduul had 24 trolls at his command and a witch (who'd stolen all the priest's ritual components), the villagers were terrified and malnourished, and 30 men-at-arms loyal to Lord Napina -the rightful ruler of Harker's Ferry - had been forced to serve Venduul but that if the party opposed the war troll they might sway the men-at-arms to fight alongside them.

The party prepared to connive their way into the keep, but the hot-headed fighter intimidated his way past the human reeve at the gate and promptly picked a fight with the troll guards. I believe the words were: "I've got your tribute right here. I draw my swords." We ended the session with those immortal words: ROLL FOR INITIATIVE.

 

[Quickleaf]

Our campaign, though just getting started, now has a web page: http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/banner-marches

Friday I face a potentially grindy combat with trolls, so I got some advice on the WotC forums for how to handle a running battle against a large number of regenerating monsters. Here's what I'm planning on:

* PCs have 3 rounds before the gatehouse is closed by a troll guard or human guards. At that point, getting past/thru the gate could take precious time.

* Venduul the war troll will start taking out his wrath on peasants if an alarm is raised, and it is likely that an alarm will be raised given the PCs' current head-on approach.

* Handle regeneration for all trolls at the end of the round, for ease of bookkeeping.

* Trolls are pretty stupid, so while they'll flank and exploit weaknesses, they don't have advanced tactics. However, they also stupid brave, and are unlikely to withdraw from fighting unless they see one or more of their number killed by fire/acid.

* Trolls aren't particularly obedient, and it may take a while for any commands Venduul issues to "reach" a troll already engaging an enemy.

* With 24 trolls, there are enough to use them in waves or have new trolls pop into battle in later rounds, leaping off battlements, charging up cellar stairs, lumbering out of the stables/kitchens covered in gore, etc.

Any other tips for making an otherwise grindy/unclimactic fight with trolls at a gate into a fast-moving, interesting, and tense blitzkrieg?

 

[Manbearcat]

Any other tips for making an otherwise grindy/unclimactic fight with trolls at a gate into a fast-moving, interesting, and tense blitzkrieg?

1 - Troll Swarms for multiple trolls (3 or more) whereby you only have to keep track of 1 regen/swarm.

2 - Mnions (for singles) that are only killed by attacks that do fire or acid damage. You can narrate their imperviousness to other attacks as instant regen.

That is the route I would go. If you think this is something you'd like to do, I could stat up both of them (give me level) when I get home from basketball late this evening.

 

[Quickleaf]

1 - Troll Swarms for multiple trolls (3 or more) whereby you only have to keep track of 1 regen/swarm.

2 - Mnions (for singles) that are only killed by attacks that do fire or acid damage. You can narrate their imperviousness to other attacks as instant

I want to stay away from minion-izing the trolls because (a) they're large brutish creatures with legendary endurance, and (b) once in Dragon Mountain the PCs are going to be facing scores upon scores of kobold minions till they're sick of 'em.

The swarms isn't a bad idea...But it feels like there would be a narrative dissonance if I am using a swarm stat block along with miniatures/tokens. Say the fighter does an obviously killing fire attack against a single troll, but that's only a dent in the swarm's HP...is that single troll killed or are they still standing? I don't see how I could do away with individual Hit Point totals for each troll and still retain any kind of vesilimitude. But maybe I'm missing something?

That is the route I would go. If you think this is something you'd like to do, I could stat up both of them (give me level) when I get home from basketball late this evening.

Thanks for the offer. Have fun shooting hoops!

 

[Manbearcat]

The swarms isn't a bad idea...But it feels like there would be a narrative dissonance if I am using a swarm stat block along with miniatures/tokens. Say the fighter does an obviously killing fire attack against a single troll, but that's only a dent in the swarm's HP...is that single troll killed or are they still standing? I don't see how I could do away with individual Hit Point totals for each troll and still retain any kind of vesilimitude. But maybe I'm missing something?

I've done this plenty of times for all manner of mass combat (barbarian hordes, stampedes, packs of dogs, unruly mobs of peasants, etc). Its worked just fine. You just have to match the narrative appropriately. Swarm rules just let you meta-game/abstract fights with multiple creatures and post-hoc fictionalize the results. You can narrate it however you guys wish. You can have a troll swarm be 3, 5, 10 trolls. The mechanics don't dictate your fiction. One attack against a swarm can be a killing blow against a troll, while another doesn't. The only thing that truly matters is that once their HPs are gone, and there is no further regen possible, the last troll dies (hopefully horribly ). The mechanics of the monster aren't your 1:1 fiction...they're a roadmap that roughly represents your fiction for ease of mechanical resolution. The fiction is your fiction! Therefore, your fiction doesn't have to be a 1:1 mapping of the operational results of your mechanical resoltion. Basically just as you would treat a Skill Challenge.

If you want, you can break out individual trolls (maybe with 25 % HPs...I would say minions but you don't want to do that) once a Swarm is Bloodied.

Anyway, those things would help your overhead dramatically and allow for thematic, climactic and tactical play to be your main concern. Its always worked for me and my table swimmingly in the past but you guys may have considerable stronger Process Simulationist Agenda leanings than we have. Sounds like that might be the case so you may need another answer. S'mon might be a good person to ask as he plays 4e and his table appear to be more Sim Agenda oriented.

 

[Quickleaf]

Can't we just be gamers in the well-balanced sense of the word? We like a little bit of everything...including simulation, gamism, immersion, all off it

I actually was thinking more about how to handle your "narrative swarm" in miniatures combat (which is something this group enjoys). That is new to me. So I guess I could write up a troll swarm as a customized regenerating elite/solo with extreme multi-attack capability, place a number of minis equal to the PCs on the board (as "attack vectors"), and then use my best judgment for when one of the attack vectors (an individual troll) is killed.

You know, the idea is just so novel for me that I might need to try it!

 

[Manbearcat]

You know, the idea is just so novel for me that I might need to try it!

You need a good aura. That will be your primary source of threat, control and damage to the PCs. A burst attack and an encounter attack power and utility would do the trick. All thematically inclined toward Trolls of course. It sounds like you're going to have a very ranging battle. Trolls are Large creatures. I would use multiple Huge Elite Swarms to represent the trolls. I have a few minutes before I leave so I'll throw one together in a second here.