A question on Sunder

[Corwyn]

In the next session the party I'm DMing will have a chance of encountering a dragon.

Having the same idea as tje BADD people I would like to play this dragon to it's fullest. One of the feats the dragon owns is sunder.

The question is how this would work. The main fighter would attack with his mithril spiked chain. So the dragon would be out to sunder it.

The dragon's attacks are bite att +17 (2d6+4) claws 2 att +12 (1d8+2) wings 2 att +12 (1d6+2) and tail att +12 (1d8+6)

The weapon has a hardness of 15 and 30hp.

How would the dragon sunder the chain??

Use all attacks to inflict damage ?, becouse most wouldn't get past the hardness.
Or just forget about it and move on to the next person??

 

[Christian]

Does the dragon have Power Attack? Power Attack + high BAB + Sunder = lots of broken weapons.

 

[Alejandro]

I don't think your dragon is strong enough to Sunder that spiked chain. It may be easier to disarm it instead.

Opposed attack rolls, compare sizes, give +4 to the spiked chain wielder. Winner gets the spiked chain.

Man, a dragon with a spiked chain would rock.

 

[Corwyn]

Yes the dragon has power attack.

but still with that and possibly a true strike I don't see it dishing out 45 points of damage with one attack...

hmmm disarming might be an idea...

 

[Artoomis]

Yes the dragon has power attack.

but still with that and possibly a true strike I don't see it dishing out 45 points of damage with one attack...

hmmm disarming might be an idea...

Leaving aside how a weapon got that much hardness and that many hit points, it does not need to be sundered in one blow.

Power attack affects all strikes in one round. If they were all against the chain - well, can you say "broken chain?" Let's see how it actually plays out.

. The object uses the combatant's Dexterity modifier (not its own –5) and any magic deflection bonus to AC the combatant may have. The attacker doesn't get any special bonus for attacking the object. If the target object is in the opponent's hand, it gets a +5 AC bonus because the opponent can move it quickly out of harm's way.

It's AC will probably be up near 20. No opposed rolls, no AoO.

Power attack for, say , 5.

Now you've got:

bite att +12 (2d6+9) claws 2 att +7 (1d8+7) wings 2 att +7 (1d6+7) and tail att +7 (1d8+13)
for averages of:

16, 11.5, 10.5 and 17.5.

Hmmmm..... Only 3 points per round. How about Power Attack for 10:

bite att +7 (2d6+14) claws 2 att +2 (1d8+12) wings 2 att +2 (1d6+12) and tail att +2 (1d8+18)

Averages:

21, 16.5, 15.5 and 22.5 for 14 points per round (well, 15 if you count fractions). But the attack bonus has dropped too low and you'll miss a while lot.

Hmm.....

I suggest the dragon would be smart to avoid direct combat. If caught in direct combat, forget sunder - try disarm as was suggested.

 

[apsuman]

two questions:

1. first how does the AC get to 20?

10 +deflection bonus to AC +5 for being in the opponenets hand?

2. isn't a spiked chain a large weapon? would that in anyway negate the +5 bonus there at the end?


However, if the dragon has spells, bulls str would help.

The hardness is the really bad part.

How about true strik followed by a power att for 100% of the BAB, so the first attack would be:
+20 (ts) + 17 (normal) -12(power attack) + 2 (bulls str) = +27

Damage would be:
2d6+4 (normal) + 2(bulls str) + 12 power attack = 25 (average)

Still not good.

Ok, sunder the Cleric's mace instead.


alternatively, grap the spiked chain with his mouth and breath weapon it.

g!

 

[Epametheus]

Page 136 of the PH..

Striking weapons is a matter of opposed attack rolls, not of simply hitting an AC.

Depending on how good the fighter is, sundering might not be that practical - in order to do sufficient damage to overcome the hardness score, its have to sacrifice enough points off the attack roll to no longer have a reasonable chance of beating the fighter on the opposed roll. And is the chain enchanted? It's hardness and HP go up one point each for each actual + on it (so if his chain is +2 it's hardness 17, HP 32..)

Actually, at +17 to hit, I'm guessing that you're working with a relatively young and weak dragon (only 14 hit dice or so..).

Disarm attempts -- or grappling -- would be MUCH better -- none of the arbitrary meanness of destroying the character's signature weapon, and keeps the character from using it, anyways. Also, no power-attack needed -- and I'm sure the dragon won't lose an opposed STR check with the scrawny mortal.

And I just rememberered something else. What DR can your dragon overcome? If there are enough +'s on the chain, your dragon's claws aren't going to be equivalent to the adequately enchanted weapon necessary to harm it, anyways. If the chain's +2 and your dragon has like 15/+1 DR, he can't damage the thing in the first place.