D&D 5E A Treatise on Hiding

[CapnZapp]

A spell that renders you immune to all single target attacks is far, far too powerful for a second level spell. So, we get these rules for hiding.

This explains why 5th edition doesn't just carbon copy an earlier attempt at H&S rules. It does not explain why it does such a disastrous job.

 

[ClearlyTough69]

You are also discovered if you’re no longer heavily obscured from a creature you’re hiding from

My reading is that you must be unseen to attempt to hide, but once you are hidden you can remain hidden from other creatures provided they can't see you clearly. This was spelled out in the Hiding sidebar in later printings of the PHB. In my book, any amount of obscurement or cover means you can't be seen clearly so you have a chance to remain hidden.

 

[WhosAChaoticGoodBoy]

I have to ask why people still seem to be having troubles with these rules. I think they are excellent guidelines for running hiding during a game.

For myself and the group I DM for, I suspect its a combination of a) peoples' expectation of stealth mechanics from how they understood it in other games, and b) overexcitement that stealth and hiding are mechanics that you can leverage willy nilly, regardless of your surroundings.

 

[Bawylie]

Why are you rolling a check at the point of declaration? What's the DC? Against who?


-Brad

 

[Caliban]

I refer you to this classic treatise on "How Not To Be Seen": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zekiZYSVdeQ

On to the actual topic at hand: I think one big point of confusion is due to how the act of hiding has changed. In previous editions you hid or stealthed as part of your move action, so (for example) you could turn invisible and immediately stealth away at half speed so as to obscure your location.

You can't do that in 5e. You can turn invisible, but it now takes a separate action to hide/stealth - which means everyone still knows where you are until your next turn, and even then you have to devote your next action to becoming silent and hidden. And you reveal your location the moment you attack or cast a spell on a subsequent turn (even if you are still invisible). (Rogues being the exception, of course - they can attack or turn invisible and then immediately stealth as a bonus action.)

Same thing applies to areas of magical darkness, etc.

I think they really wanted stealth in combat to mainly be the province of rogues, to avoid it slowing down combat.

 

[ClearlyTough69]

...everyone still knows where you are unless you devote your action every round to remaining silent and hidden. (Rogues being the exception, of course - they can stealth as a bonus action.)

I don't think it's the intention of 5e that you should take the Hide action every round to remain hidden. The Hide action allows you to make a Stealth check, and that Stealth check persists until you stop being hidden. From the Hiding sidebar, PHB p 177:

Hiding
When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Until
you are discovered or you stop hiding, that check’s total is
contested by the Wisdom (Perception) check of any creature
that actively searches for signs of your presence.

I can't read into RAW the need to make a check every round.

 

[Caliban]

I don't think it's the intention of 5e that you should take the Hide action every round to remain hidden. The Hide action allows you to make a Stealth check, and that Stealth check persists until you stop being hidden. From the Hiding sidebar, PHB p 177:

You are correct, I didn't say what I meant very well. You don't have to keep hiding every round to stay hidden, but I believe that if you cast a spell (unless it is a subtle spell) or make an attack, you are no longer hidden. And you can't immediately hide again once you reveal your location unless you are a rogue.

I've edited my post to correct my error.

I can't read into RAW the need to make a check every round.

Then you simply need more practice at reading RAW to mean whatever you want it to mean.

 

[thethain]

I was kinda miffed when in the middle of a campaign I was told my goblin couldn't try to hide behind a wall because "They know you are here now".

Next campaign I just skipped the whole thing and picked halfling, Hey a creature, I will attempt to hide, since my racial feature states explicitly that is what I can do.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

I was kinda miffed when in the middle of a campaign I was told my goblin couldn't try to hide behind a wall because "They know you are here now".

Next campaign I just skipped the whole thing and picked halfling, Hey a creature, I will attempt to hide, since my racial feature states explicitly that is what I can do.

Abilities like that is why I'm pretty lenient with hiding when I DM. Being able to hide as a bonus action is pretty pointless if you're never able to satisfy the conditions to hide during combat.

 

[Hussar]

This explains why 5th edition doesn't just carbon copy an earlier attempt at H&S rules. It does not explain why it does such a disastrous job.

I dunno. I have no problems with it. You take the HIDE action to be HIDDEN. Seems pretty straightforward to me. What they really needed to do was spell out HIDDEN as a condition, in the conditions list. Personally I figured that it was pretty self evident, but, apparently not.

IOW, if you don't take the HIDE action, you cannot be HIDDEN, and nothing about being HIDDEN applies to your character. You might be invisible (which is spelled out as a condition) but you aren't HIDDEN.

The problem comes when people try to conflate the two things.

thethain
I was kinda miffed when in the middle of a campaign I was told my goblin couldn't try to hide behind a wall because "They know you are here now".

Next campaign I just skipped the whole thing and picked halfling, Hey a creature, I will attempt to hide, since my racial feature states explicitly that is what I can do.


Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7080681#ixzz4eAm0VvT3

That's just poor DMing though. If they don't have a line of sight to your character, you can hide. Now, since you're hiding behind a wall (depending on how long the wall is I suppose), they are going to know where you are, even if not the exact square, and, as soon as they move around the wall, they are going to see you since now they have a clear line of sight.

And, it's not a terribly bad call to say that you wouldn't get Advantage on your attacks for ducking behind a wall. I mean, they DO know where you are, even if they cannot see you. As soon as you poke up to shoot your bow or whatever, they are going to see you. There's no reason you'd gain Advantage on attacks.