[Adult] Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge, thread 2

[Sorn]

@Isawa: I see where you are coming from. However, where do we draw the line on what gets into the "funny" book and what makes it into the serious one? One might think that the "Pimp" PrC is slapstick, while someone else is happy that he finally has a cool PrC for his favorite NPC.

IMO, sex is fun. Let's leave the more tongue-in-cheek stuff where it is. DM's are smart enough to pick the stuff we want. People who are not interested in rules for sex and prostitution won't get the guide to begin with. If the general response to the guide is that it is too slapstick, we can always re-edit it to be more serious.

 

[kolvar]

@Isawa: I have had the same concerns, when I read the thread. But somehow, the Guide without the silly stuff would not be the same. We were attracted to the 2nd E guide for completely different things, as far as I can see, but the sillyness of some of the stuff had something for it, and I think, I would miss it.

How about a poll? There are enough people, who seem to be interested in the guide (over 100 downloads, since I implemented the counter and that was long after the last update). Will do one.

By the way: How far is Averil with the editing?

 

[Isawa Sideshow]

@sorn and kolvar:

I love the fun aspects too - I subscribe to the Xxxenophile shool of sexuality. However, at the same time I realize that not everyone wants a humorous guide to sex; some people actually want a more serious guide, and some will actively shun the BoUCK simply because of the less-serious portions, even if they'd otherwise like the content.

That said, the basic guidelines I'd use for the dividing line are as follows:

1) Any content on pregnancy, midwifery, contraception, and fertility/infertility goes in the serious guide.
2) Any content on the basic mechanics for sex resolution goes in the serious guide.
3) Any content on seduction/charm and associated magics goes in the serious guide.
4) Any patently humorous or intentionally "over-the-top" items/spells/etc. go in the hentai add-on. Also, tentacles and all associated items go in the hentai guide.

Basic guideline: if you'd use it in a serious campaign, it goes in the serious guide; otherwise, it goes into the hentai add-on.

By those guidelines, here's the list of things I would cut from the main guide (if it were my decision - it's not, of course);

Porno Periodicals of Humanoids

Pimp PrC
Tentacle Master PrC

Spells
------
Annihilator's Penis of Power
Bitch Slap
Embarrassing Fetish
Flash
Freudian Thoughts
Heterophobia/Homophobia
Luwain's Everlasting Hard-On (perhaps just a name change)
Masturbation
PMS
Power Word, Castrate
Prismatic Dildo
Resist Self
Skank
Slap
Strip
Summon Cissaldan
Tweak/Goose

Psionic Powers
----
Willy's Partial Expansion

Items
----
Castration weapons
Raping weapons
Dagger of Circumcision (debatable)
Rod of Pillows
Rod of Vibration
Tentacular Staffs
Phallic Wands
Sheet of Useful Toys
Strap-On of Astounding
Teeny-Weeny Bikini
Underwear items

Monsters
----
Recondite
Skirtseeker
Twat Mouse
Wild Oats

----------

Magic items get hurt the most, since most of those were lifted directly from the 2e guide. Spells, on the other hand, don't get changed all that much, since the vast majority are focused on pregnancy and seduction.

Also, I noticed that several of the spells are either very weak on mechanics, or duplicate other spells (Sexual Nerd and Layla's Uglification, for example).

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Hey how so 'Resist Self' is not a serious spell.

I like idea of splitting guide thus, because it's logical. However, I woudn't call hentai part web enchantment then, rather part 2 with 'hentai'-type name for it.

I like the silly stuff too. Yeh, it makes me think 'this is sooo tastelessly silly' but makes me laugh too. In world of where magic exist some wizards and clerics of deities of love (carnal love) might come with pretty weird inventions. Sexuality has many twists in real world, some of them, truly weird. Isewa, are you speaking 'unusual sex' in general should be in hentai book or just 'silly'?

Some realism is good, but hentai for example has another kind of 'reality' for it's realism. Regular porn works under its own realistic rules as well, though they don't go that far from reality.

Besides some items sold in real life to be used to 'enchant sex life' are pretty silly, sort of at least. Names, if nothing else. Those type of people who buy 'Real Dolls' in real life (and can afford it), would probably be people in fantasy world who buy expensive golems meant for same purpose, but more fun?/livable. Creations of magic tend to be more miraclous, than lacking technology or real world. Imagination is not enough I think, to guess the actual amount of stuff people would do and invent, if magic such in D&D existed.

Well anyway. Moving certain parts into other book would help make book more logical and useful. There are spells now in book I know, written very different theme in mind, for example. Separating these themes would not be such a bad idea. They would still be one book. Part 'one' for more common ideas for sex and part 'two' for extra themes.

Many games have common theme and leave additional themes for additional book. Yep, to sell more books too.
For example, Spycraft took out psionics/'chemical monsters'/mysticism and publishes them in separate Shadow..(forget what) Archer. Apperantly because many had commented, that they don't want to mix supernatural themes in their spy-games.

Though I don't know, if that helps book's reputation or anything like that. Some people just hate the subject of sexually concentrated themes in rpg no matter what. They are ok with erotic or mayhaps even kinky picture in regular product, but book including name 'sex' or 'carnal' makes their 'no' reactions kick in.

Oh, and our guide probably gets compared to games like 'f.a.t.a.l'
by people just go for them 'sex' as 'evil' or 'immature sexually frustfrated teenager "roleplaying"'. Ah, and on sidenote, I dislike fatal being mentioned in same sentance than our guide.

I've actully read some of it. System is for table/detail fanatic. Tables are many, are truly work of 'love' (for tables, and tables and tables). It is way too long. It is booring. It is not very kinky game, actually, because it's so detailed it is boring and because of it's theme. It's tone is negative and nihilistic. It has medievil (spiritual) world view right out of 'Malleus Maleficarum' ("Hammer of the Witches"). Many monsters were inspired IMO by said book at least, likevise many things concidering females, they omitted certain harm factor for males (from monsters, spells, etc), curiously. Game is neither very RL nor D&D in spirit. I suspect it became legendary though some flame war, otherwise it's name would not have gotten such attention. Very misogynistic depressive idea for a game. Few nice ideas for spells/critters, but nothing truly original. I don't recomend you checking it out, it's not worth it.

Nothing like our guide, that is.

Most use of for our guide will come out of 'amusement factor'. People will download it and laught at 'silliness' that some people actually wrote 'D&D guide to sex' and 'isn't that joke getting old' and then they might even read it and laught at some silliness they actually find in it.

Different people's ideas of silliness vary too.

Some parts might be used in regular games, by those people who are not bothered about book's 'name'.
Fewer would be those, who actually used the system for sex.

We will receive very little response from people, and people would commonly be very shy to admit, that some of our ideas/spells are cool and say using them.

That's my guess, at least.

I have a feeling, if make poll mentioned. Responses would come mostly from us.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Re: The "Silliness" factor?

While reading the thread on the general board about the upcoming Book of Vile Darkness, I've noticed a number of people saying that they'd avoid something like this guide because of the immaturity that is associated with it. They're more interested, they say, on a guide that focuses on the more serious and/or spiritual sides of sex in a gaming world.

I read it too, and I though, as if I care, such thoughts about immature themes sit as tightly in people's heads as many people's ideas of a) high-level/high-magic/high-stats game being 'munchkin' (I probly misspelled that), b) rightness of their idea of game-balance or c) arguments over D&D morality and 'how paladin is played RIGHT'.

Besides, some people always follow opinions of flock, especially, if they haven't yet formed their own. This is how some computer game for example gets nominated for 'best/worst' game of all time. It is wonderous how many people 'vote' their 'opinions' based on opinions they've heard/read.

Many people don't play D&D, because it is 'immature' and 'silly', it has level and hit points. Hit points being especially silly etc...

Immaturity comes from people's heads, it has nothing to do with people actually reading our guide and then stating their opinions. Some have read it or earlier version, but as many probably pass it because 'whole theme is immature to exist in rpg'. Silliness and immaturity feel two different opinions to me.

And, many just don't like idea of 'rolling for orgasm', even if they do use sexual themes in their games.

More serious and spiritual side? Ah, true music for coming in flame war. Trying to go for too serious would be mistake at least, spirituality just brought to my mind alignment arguments.

Problem is, we have limited number of people who wrote/ are writing this guide, it is voluntary, it is not paid job, and we are limited by those ideas we have. I've not once heard anyone claiming to be some sort of expert on these matters. So, if people want real life stuff, they are better off reading quite other books and they probably are too.

I wonder, what those people mean by that, anyway. More serious and spiritual side? That could mean many things.

Isewa, if you want add such aspects to this guide, feel free and write or persuade someone to. Any ideas? What to add, what kind of things would be useful for those mildly sexually themed games? Opinions?

I think this is not about only transferring some sfuff to guide part 2, something might need to be added too.

I am best at writing monsters/items/spells/weirdness/stories as long as someone corrects my English.

In games I've played/been dm, sexual themes are sometimes non-existant. Sometimes existed as realistic and somewhat grim (sad fates of lower city prostitutes and such) as addition to make world feel more 'realistic'. At other times it has been part of PC past time activities (fun), sometimes sex is used to gain something (seductions). And of course many demonologists and evil wizards, and different critters who have their own special 'needs' (whatever pc getting to to be bad guy's/gal's love intrest, or evil wizard practising perverse rituals to gain power, or emphatic vampirism, villagers possessed by weird spirits, that cause them to start mad mating orgy... but for what reason.. etc).

How are promised stories coming up, btw?

I am truly tired when I write these answers...

 

[tanilen]

when I first started working on my own update to the classic netbook with some guys on the Gray Archive forum, just after 3E came out, it was pretty clear we had to keep a sense of humor about us. Here we were, writing game mechinics for sex and even rape and weird spells and magic items, we tried to keep it a little light just so people would not think we were total demented perverted game geeks (partial- yes, total, no).

Taking out the light hearted stuff from the main book like the periodicals and anecdotes would be a big mistake, imo. And lumping everything into a second "hentai" book is gonna seriously lessen that book as well. The hard core book will become just a collection of cast off items.

Lets be honest with ourselves here, folks. We are writing a netbook that gives game rules for sex in D&D. Taking the light hearted stuff out of the main book so it can be a serious exploration of sexuality is what will make the CNBUCK a joke, not the reverse.

But thats just my 2 cents. I am more than willing to support what ever decision the community as a whole comes up with.

 

[kolvar]

Somhow, I could not have put it in words, I feel the same as you, Tanilen.
But if we actually split it, we should keep the silly stuff apart from the hentai stuff. Hentai might be silly to some, but it is rather dark with it's humilations, dominations and monstrous rapes.
That would mean, three guides.
(And I still believe, that the humorous side is still necessary).
Have you voted Tanilen? Maybe you should state your comment there again.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

I agree with you tanilen. Some 'silly/humorous' stuff belongs to hentai section. Recondite, Tentacle Master or Prismatic Dildos/Raping Swords and stuff like that for example. I don't consider this league of "cast-off items". Opinions?

Those just sound more hentai. Kicking all humor and silliness into hentai book is not good idea IMO, which I tried to point out (and failed misarable).

Two books should be enough. Perhaps we should merk more redically silly parts of guide with smilies or something. Helps you pass through those, when you want searching 'more serious' (yeh, serious indeed ) stuff and helps you find those particulary silly part too, when they are needed.

Would you like it done this way?

 

[kolvar]

@Zelda: think of the layout from Sorn, think of smilies. Now try to fit that together.
I think, smilies are (apart from any other merit or flaw) something to avoid in this layout.

 

[Sorn]

Ok... getting the change out of my wallet. Ahh... $0.02....

Moving everything that is remotely funny into the hentai book: Not a good idea. People who want hentai rules will be put off by the silly stuff, and people looking for humorous things to spice up their campaigns will be annoyed by the hentai rules.

Things that obviously fit into the Hentai category (raping swords, tentacle master, etc): Sure move them over.

Smilies: Great idea... Not necessarily this one: ,but I think I can find some dingbat that conveys humor. One of those theater-masks maybe. Or we just put the funny stuff into side-bars and shaded boxes.