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Adventurer Base Class
- Thread starter Sylrae
- Start date
It doesn't seem overpowered to me simply because it doesn't seem to do anything very well, just everything mediocre.
+1 to this idea. (I seem to be doing this alot to you, Claudius).
I'd probably do one at level 5ish, and then have the bonuses for whichever one they pick, increase just slightly at level 10 and 18. Or possibly even let them choose another specialized ability at this level. Just take out a bonus feat or something else for each one you add. It would definately make it a more playable character and less bland.
As for the skill points, 6 doesn't make it overly powerful, but I can understand why your DM wants it to be 4+Int instead.
Claudius Gaius said:
+1 to this idea. (I seem to be doing this alot to you, Claudius).
I'd probably do one at level 5ish, and then have the bonuses for whichever one they pick, increase just slightly at level 10 and 18. Or possibly even let them choose another specialized ability at this level. Just take out a bonus feat or something else for each one you add. It would definately make it a more playable character and less bland.
As for the skill points, 6 doesn't make it overly powerful, but I can understand why your DM wants it to be 4+Int instead.
Claudius Gaius
First Post
Ah well, memories of an old second edition generic "adventurer" class. 
It may be a bit over-the-top in standard d20: I'm so used to Eclipse point-buy (and to people buying only the items that fit the exact idea they had in mind) by now that it's a bit hard to judge without breaking it down. Personally I suspect that the base fighter is a bit underpowered: outside of combat they usually have little or nothing to do - and our games often spend a lot of time on information-gathering and social situations.
edit: Hm. I'll take a minute and check: 20xd8 Hit Dice: 80 Points, Skills 138 Points (6 SP per level) or 92 (4 SP per level), +19 BAB (Warcraft, 114 Points), +30 total saves (90 Points), 5 Bonus Feats (30 Points), Favored Enemy (6 Points), Endurance (Immunity, 4 Points), Evasion (Fortune/Reflex Variant, 6 Points), Acrobatic Charge (Immunity, 6 Points), Lucky (Luck, 6 Points), Uncanny Dodge (Awareness, 6 Points), Fast Movement (Celerity, 6 Points), and Slippery Mind (Luck/Specialized Reroll Variant, 6 Points). Total: 498 Points (6 SP version) or 452 Points (4 SP per level version). A standard Fighter breaks down to 451 and a standard Rogue to 479. Of course, the base allowance is 24 points per level counting L0 - making 504 points.
Now, we do count the Fighter - as noted earlier - as being a bit underpowered in non-combat situations. In our games the spare points usually go towards some background skills (heraldry, armor repair, diplomacy, etc).
The results also suggest that a 20'th level Rogue is about equivalent to a 19'th level Sorcerer or Wizard as far as effectiveness goes. We usually have those points go to a few contacts, Immunity to lesser Divination effects (Rogues who don't buy this tend to get caught quickly), and some ability to sense magic - so that they'll know if they're up against major magical defenses.
Overall, I'd be perfectly willing to accept the 6 SP per level version. Depending on how expensive any speculative special abilities are it might be best to cut it back to 4 SP per level.
It may be a bit over-the-top in standard d20: I'm so used to Eclipse point-buy (and to people buying only the items that fit the exact idea they had in mind) by now that it's a bit hard to judge without breaking it down. Personally I suspect that the base fighter is a bit underpowered: outside of combat they usually have little or nothing to do - and our games often spend a lot of time on information-gathering and social situations.edit: Hm. I'll take a minute and check: 20xd8 Hit Dice: 80 Points, Skills 138 Points (6 SP per level) or 92 (4 SP per level), +19 BAB (Warcraft, 114 Points), +30 total saves (90 Points), 5 Bonus Feats (30 Points), Favored Enemy (6 Points), Endurance (Immunity, 4 Points), Evasion (Fortune/Reflex Variant, 6 Points), Acrobatic Charge (Immunity, 6 Points), Lucky (Luck, 6 Points), Uncanny Dodge (Awareness, 6 Points), Fast Movement (Celerity, 6 Points), and Slippery Mind (Luck/Specialized Reroll Variant, 6 Points). Total: 498 Points (6 SP version) or 452 Points (4 SP per level version). A standard Fighter breaks down to 451 and a standard Rogue to 479. Of course, the base allowance is 24 points per level counting L0 - making 504 points.
Now, we do count the Fighter - as noted earlier - as being a bit underpowered in non-combat situations. In our games the spare points usually go towards some background skills (heraldry, armor repair, diplomacy, etc).
The results also suggest that a 20'th level Rogue is about equivalent to a 19'th level Sorcerer or Wizard as far as effectiveness goes. We usually have those points go to a few contacts, Immunity to lesser Divination effects (Rogues who don't buy this tend to get caught quickly), and some ability to sense magic - so that they'll know if they're up against major magical defenses.
Overall, I'd be perfectly willing to accept the 6 SP per level version. Depending on how expensive any speculative special abilities are it might be best to cut it back to 4 SP per level.
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Sylrae
First Post
I'm back. Was kindof busy. Exam time + girlfriend.
Arkhandus: Bonus feats are pretty clear. They take bonus feats, in a fashion similar to that of a fighter gaining bonus feats at the indicated levels, with the available feats listed in the little box at the bottom of the class.
I was going for more BAB than a rogue, less than a fighter, so if absolutely necessary I suppose we could go bab 7/8 instead of 3/4. I figure it should hit roughly as hard as a ranger, but maybe slightly less. But without the sneak attacks and such im not sure about the rogueness. at 7/8 (as opposed to the rogue's 3/4, or the wizard's 1/2, or the fighter's 1 - hey! maybe a sorcerers bab could be changed to 5/8! (lol)) its exactly halfway between the rogue and the fighter. This means that it's 1 level behind a fighter up to 82 levels to 16, 3 levels to 24, etc, I suppose I should mention I originally came up with this class before I noticed that D&D used fractional BAB (I thought each class had its own weird progression).
It now has a fractional BAB instead of being just 1 behind the fighter. It now conforms to the D&D Class design style of a fractional BAB (and still lets me give it a BAB between a rogue and a fighter).
I don't know what a speculative special ability is or how it is any more expensive than any other ability. please explain.
Maybe in cutting it back, just to cheese a certain someone off by being slightly different than standard D&D I should make it 5 SP if I need to reduce it. next ill make up a race that gives a +1 stat adjust instead of a +2! (This little paragraph is a joke.. maybe.)
So for the spellcasting, say we make it spellcast as a sorcerer of half the level maybe? How do you suggest I add the Magic dabbler?
and how is te slayer ability different than the favored enemy it gets already?
3/14 people don't understand fractions.
Arkhandus: Bonus feats are pretty clear. They take bonus feats, in a fashion similar to that of a fighter gaining bonus feats at the indicated levels, with the available feats listed in the little box at the bottom of the class.
I was going for more BAB than a rogue, less than a fighter, so if absolutely necessary I suppose we could go bab 7/8 instead of 3/4. I figure it should hit roughly as hard as a ranger, but maybe slightly less. But without the sneak attacks and such im not sure about the rogueness. at 7/8 (as opposed to the rogue's 3/4, or the wizard's 1/2, or the fighter's 1 - hey! maybe a sorcerers bab could be changed to 5/8! (lol)) its exactly halfway between the rogue and the fighter. This means that it's 1 level behind a fighter up to 82 levels to 16, 3 levels to 24, etc, I suppose I should mention I originally came up with this class before I noticed that D&D used fractional BAB (I thought each class had its own weird progression).
It now has a fractional BAB instead of being just 1 behind the fighter. It now conforms to the D&D Class design style of a fractional BAB (and still lets me give it a BAB between a rogue and a fighter).
Claudius Gaius said:
I don't know what a speculative special ability is or how it is any more expensive than any other ability. please explain.
Maybe in cutting it back, just to cheese a certain someone off by being slightly different than standard D&D I should make it 5 SP if I need to reduce it. next ill make up a race that gives a +1 stat adjust instead of a +2! (This little paragraph is a joke.. maybe.)
Claudius Gaius said:
So for the spellcasting, say we make it spellcast as a sorcerer of half the level maybe? How do you suggest I add the Magic dabbler?
and how is te slayer ability different than the favored enemy it gets already?
3/14 people don't understand fractions.
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Sylrae
First Post
How About Mediocre Saves!
Instead of 2 good and a bad, what do you all think of 3 in between?
Instead of 2 good and a bad, what do you all think of 3 in between?
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All Saves the same!
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(a Good save is 2+ 1/2 per level)
(a Bad save is 0 + 1/3 per level)
(a Medium save is 1 + 5/12 per level)
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Claudius Gaius
First Post
A "speculative special ability" is one that hasn't yet been written up, and may not yet have been named - such as the aforementioned "something fairly radical in the way of a special ability". They're difficult to price or balance, just as "vaporware" is difficult to install.
As for "Slayer", some likely variants here include one or more of the following:
*Able to automatically bypass the DR of a particular type of target, such as Undead, Constructs, or Evil Outsiders.
*Being especially resistant to the attacks of a particular type of target, either via a saving throw bonus, a minor immunity, a continious protective spell effect, or to a specialized Damage Reduction (Say 4/Not being the favored target type at L5, increasing to 8/not being the favored target type at L10 and 10/not being the favored target type at L18, to go with Tyonisius, above).
*Having attribute bonuses that only activate when in battle against a particular type of opponent.
*Being able to sense when the appropriate target type is nearby.
For a minor magical dabbler, perhaps from among
*The ability to use Wands and Staves. Perhaps being able to increase their effective caster level, perhaps by one-third their own level.
*Minor Spellcasting - say L1: Select 3xL0, each usable once per day (may select the same one more tha one, choose from any list, may swap out one spell per level gained). L4: 4/2. L7: 5/3. L10: 5/3/1. L13: 6/4/2. L16: 7/5/3, and L19+: 7/5/3/1 (thus getting a single L3 spell). Characters who limit themselves to a particular list get bonus spells based on the relevant attribute, so minor acolytes or druidic initiates can use wisdom, arcane casters could pick charisma or intelligence, and so on. Spell books are not needed.
*Access to some low-powered magical system, such as Runecraft or Witchcraft (Eclipse again)
For a "Winter Huntsman" how about
*The ability to move on ice and snow without slipping or leaving tracks at L1
*A minor (5-10 point) resistance to cold at L5
*The ability to create weapons and armor made of ice as needed at L10 (these melt moments after leaving the creators person. If the user is attacked by fire, they;re destroyed, but take 20 points off the damage while melting).
*At L18 maybe immunity to cold, or having all weapons treated as +2 Frost weapons or some such?
The possibilities are fairly endless of course, but half a dozen flavorful ones will provide the players with a quick and easy template for coming up with more. Personally, I'd say that most of these are worth anywhere from 1-3 Feats, depending on what options are taken.
As for "Slayer", some likely variants here include one or more of the following:
*Able to automatically bypass the DR of a particular type of target, such as Undead, Constructs, or Evil Outsiders.
*Being especially resistant to the attacks of a particular type of target, either via a saving throw bonus, a minor immunity, a continious protective spell effect, or to a specialized Damage Reduction (Say 4/Not being the favored target type at L5, increasing to 8/not being the favored target type at L10 and 10/not being the favored target type at L18, to go with Tyonisius, above).
*Having attribute bonuses that only activate when in battle against a particular type of opponent.
*Being able to sense when the appropriate target type is nearby.
For a minor magical dabbler, perhaps from among
*The ability to use Wands and Staves. Perhaps being able to increase their effective caster level, perhaps by one-third their own level.
*Minor Spellcasting - say L1: Select 3xL0, each usable once per day (may select the same one more tha one, choose from any list, may swap out one spell per level gained). L4: 4/2. L7: 5/3. L10: 5/3/1. L13: 6/4/2. L16: 7/5/3, and L19+: 7/5/3/1 (thus getting a single L3 spell). Characters who limit themselves to a particular list get bonus spells based on the relevant attribute, so minor acolytes or druidic initiates can use wisdom, arcane casters could pick charisma or intelligence, and so on. Spell books are not needed.
*Access to some low-powered magical system, such as Runecraft or Witchcraft (Eclipse again)
For a "Winter Huntsman" how about
*The ability to move on ice and snow without slipping or leaving tracks at L1
*A minor (5-10 point) resistance to cold at L5
*The ability to create weapons and armor made of ice as needed at L10 (these melt moments after leaving the creators person. If the user is attacked by fire, they;re destroyed, but take 20 points off the damage while melting).
*At L18 maybe immunity to cold, or having all weapons treated as +2 Frost weapons or some such?
The possibilities are fairly endless of course, but half a dozen flavorful ones will provide the players with a quick and easy template for coming up with more. Personally, I'd say that most of these are worth anywhere from 1-3 Feats, depending on what options are taken.
Claudius Gaius
First Post
Well lets see... Yes, I do think that adds flavor.
The Slayer AC bonus increases by +4 per step on the list, rather than by the +2 listed, and it probably needs a cap.
Minor Magical Dabbler is potentially quite useful: it should probably cost a third Feat - and it needs to get rid of the "perhaps" under Use Wand, so as to make it:
"Use Wand: May use Wands and Staves as any base caster class (chosen at 1st level) of their Minor Magical Dabbler level and may increase the effective caster level of wands and staves in their hands by one-third their own level, rounded down." Also needs to get rid of the "say" after minor spellcasting.
Winter Huntsman needs to get rid of "a minor" after "Cold Tolerance".
Planar Adventurer is pretty handy - especially the quick adaption effect at higher levels, but that is pretty limited. Is there a margin of error on the gate effect similar to that for the plane shift?
Overall I'd allow it. Of course, I tend to be a bit freewheeling (I usually let everyone use Eclipse point buy to build completely individualized characters), so that probably wouldn't go for all game masters. It is a bit better than multiclassing the most of the base classes, but plenty of prestige combos classes are much stronger - and there won't be many prestige classes designed to fit a custom base class. Looks like fun to me!
The Slayer AC bonus increases by +4 per step on the list, rather than by the +2 listed, and it probably needs a cap.
Minor Magical Dabbler is potentially quite useful: it should probably cost a third Feat - and it needs to get rid of the "perhaps" under Use Wand, so as to make it:
"Use Wand: May use Wands and Staves as any base caster class (chosen at 1st level) of their Minor Magical Dabbler level and may increase the effective caster level of wands and staves in their hands by one-third their own level, rounded down." Also needs to get rid of the "say" after minor spellcasting.
Winter Huntsman needs to get rid of "a minor" after "Cold Tolerance".
Planar Adventurer is pretty handy - especially the quick adaption effect at higher levels, but that is pretty limited. Is there a margin of error on the gate effect similar to that for the plane shift?
Overall I'd allow it. Of course, I tend to be a bit freewheeling (I usually let everyone use Eclipse point buy to build completely individualized characters), so that probably wouldn't go for all game masters. It is a bit better than multiclassing the most of the base classes, but plenty of prestige combos classes are much stronger - and there won't be many prestige classes designed to fit a custom base class. Looks like fun to me!
