Adventures of the Knights of the Silver Quill: Glacier Season

[Wee Jas]

Yeah, you'd think that, right? Try dealing with the endless crybaby kvetching you get, though... I told Vek before this session even began that I was going to allow the dragon a Will save, and I even showed him the sidebar paragraph where it's actually recommended by the adventure's author.

I mem'd Heal and Doc flipped flop on Harm a few times in the battle. As a matter of fact he said at one point "I'd probably let you use it if you had mem'd it." I sacked my Heal to cast Harm about 2 hours into the battle... so its not like there was no risk involved (and not like we were waltzing through the battle). I beat the Dragons SR (for once in like 8 spells) and made my touch attack. If it had contigency cast on it.. Well then I wouldn't whine because that would be in the dragons character and be playing by the rules. Even if you allow the save there should be a secondary affect.. (like the lower level versions)...

Furthermore...If I've been whining about Harm then.. I've heard nothing but whining from our DM that we ignored his adventure! He was flipping out. http://wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/bs/bs20020222a

Please see Wizards DM advice:

"the DM may become frustrated if the players consistently ignore adventure hooks tossed in their direction or if the PCs keep running off into the woods instead of sacking that nice, juicy dungeon that he or she lovingly built. So what do you do about it? The answer is as deceptively simple as the problem: Talk to your players! In discussing the game with them, you can help crystallize and clarify everyone's feelings about the game. You may also gain further knowledge of the players' wishes and playing styles. If there is a rule interpretation you don't like and wish to change, discuss it with your players. They may agree, or they may think it's just fine the way it is. They may also want to avoid monkeying around with the official rules. You might say, "I'm bored with stale old Euro-fantasy! I want to try running something set in ancient India, but with evil PCs!" Your players might say, "Sounds great! You could download the Mahasarpa campaign for ideas," or they might say, "Um, no . . . don't think so. I like Euro-fantasy." It may turn out that what you want as a DM and what the players want as players will not be compatible. If that's the case, the best thing to do is see whether someone else would like to run the game for a while, or you could even run simultaneous or alternating campaigns. For example, maybe one DM can run an AD&D Dark Sun campaign every other week, while another runs a D&D Forgotten Realms campaign. You might even step away from the screen for a while and let someone else start a campaign."

 

[Dr Midnight]

I mem'd Heal and Doc flipped flop on Harm a few times in the battle. As a matter of fact he said at one point "I'd probably let you use it if you had mem'd it."

I said that I had considered repealing the decision. That's not flip flopping, that's... not flip flopping.

If it had contigency cast on it.. Well then I wouldn't whine because that would be in the dragons character and be playing by the rules.

You keep hinting that we weren't playing by the rules. My decision constituted a house rule. It became in and of the game.

Furthermore...If I've been whining about Harm then.. I've heard nothing but whining from our DM that we ignored his adventure! He was flipping out.

When?? I flipped out for a while, holding my head in my hands like a mindblasted kobold, and then I dealt and moved on. After that, anything I said was about how it's not a good idea for an 11th-level party to mess with a Great Wyrm... not about the adventure. I'll mourn the loss of the adventure if it's not played, but I'll not keep dropping the topic in conversation.

...and I talked to the players... it just didn't help.

 

[Ziona]

Harm has pretty much been rules by almost everyone as truly broken, so giving the dragon a save isn't that outrageous. Plus you would have had to get through the dragons hefty spell resistance for both the harm and the inflict spell.

Actually, Vek rolled and DID GET THROUGH THE HEFTY SPELL RESISTANCE.

And btw, Jesterpoet, it's not just WeeJas who is "complaining." During the battle, Doc said that if Vek had memorized the Harm spell, he would have considered letting him use it without the save. Then, after Vek sacked Heal for Harm, and BEAT THE SR, Doc decided that it had a save...ugh.

 

[Xaltar]

We all agree (the party) or at least I believe that we do, that harm is too powerful. The major downfall that we had was due to the fact that Slay Living in this instance was actually more powerful.

The spell needed to hit (ranged attack) + spell resistance. It was more just a matter of the fact that it should have done something. The dragon could only really fail on a natural 1.


Anyway, if we were really bad PC's, we would have stayed until we all died. That's when you should do a TPK, when they aren't smart enough to figure out that they really aren't going to win the battle. As for fleeing, technically only one person actually got in the bag of holding (the largest one available) and they did so as a full round action.

I'm sorry that this turned into such an issue, but the group has done similar things when I've been DMing, such as the time they bluffed their way straight through the Tower of Bones and killed the boss; and another time in the Pool of Radiance module when they snuck into Castle Coramyr invisible, and avoided all combats but the final battle.

PC's are just unpredictable.

 

[Artoomis]

I look forward to seeing what plans the Knights come up with next...

I'm certain that, if nothing else, they will be challenging to the good doctor.

 

[Broccli_Head]

I'm just wondering where all Accesiwell's friends were!

I thought that he had a mini-empire in the frozen wastes! (Plus I have the adventure...)

Don't see the knights doing this very easily. Plus, IIRC, the dragon's lair has anti-scrying properties.... Hasty adventurers make for nice humanoid-ka-bobs.

Please don't kill Dartan.

 

[Schmoe]

At this point, I think I'm going to allow 15hp of damage/cleric level for harm, with no save (this will be for every creature, not just the dragon).

I would recommend only 10hp per level. Touch attacks are incredibly easy, and there is still NO SAVE. A 6th level spell that will do 110-200 points of damage (depending on level) with no save is still quite powerful.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Wee Jas wrote:

I mem'd Heal and Doc flipped flop on Harm a few times in the battle. As a matter of fact he said at one point "I'd probably let you use it if you had mem'd it." I sacked my Heal to cast Harm about 2 hours into the battle

Just curious, but how did you "sack" your prepared Heal spell to cast Harm? I assume you are referring to your ability to drop a prepared spell for one of the Inflict spells, but Harm is not one of those spells. Or is this a house rule?

 

[Wee Jas]

Nope.. Zoom youre right. /bows

Looks like I better go crack some more books!

 

[Dr Midnight]

Well, I guess you guys will hear it from me first-
The Knights are going on indefinite hiatus.
If we pick the campaign up again at all, it won't be for several months at least, I'm thinking.

I'm sorry to see it go. I loved the campaign and put a lot of thought into it. I loved reading reader feedback. I love sitting behind the DM screen. We just all need a break from it. I'll be player only for a while.

I'm hoping after a break from it all that we'll all kinda get the itch to see what happens.

So, there you go... No more Knights.