Advice on helping high level non-flexible casters feel useful versus magic immune creatures

[The Crimson Binome]

You still have hands. If you're that high of level that you're worrying about rakshasas and tiamats, then you probably have a magic dagger that nobody else needed. Go up there and stab that fool. Bounded Accuracy means you are just as likely to hit as the rogue is. Your 1d4+6 can add up over a few rounds.

From the DM side of the table, if you're that worried about some players feeling left out, you can just not use those monsters. Maybe they don't exist in your world, or maybe they just aren't very ambitious. Alternatively, you can just warn players ahead of time about the dangers of crippling overspecialization, so that they know to blame themselves when an important monster isn't susceptible to their one gimmick.

 

[Raif]

First of - thanks for all the replies!

Just a few clarifications:

• This is specifically for the end of campaign boss fight, not other fights along the way. Not everyone has to be the shining light in combat all the time and anyone who wanted to be that always is certianly not who I would want to play with.
• Not talking about legendary resistances and stuff like that, I feel that is tactital play on the players behalf to get rid of those.
• I am in total agreement that D&D is a group objective game, Chad the Sorcerer isn't always going to be dealing mega-damage and needs to learn to be a productive member of the group - this does mean keeping an expanded repertoire.
• I should have specified I am more talking about classes who cannot swap their prepared spell list - namely sorcerer, bard, warlock who try to go for themes in their spells. For example a blasty draconic sorcerer, or a debuffing bard, or the straight EB warlock. Wizards and the like can swap daily and if they don't choose spells that assist in this case that's on them.

I totally should have given more information I suppose - my fault. The specifics of the fight is that it is indeed against a god type creature that has magic immunity to certain level spells (most likely 5th and lower). There will be lots of need for inter-party cooperation of spells to get the barbarian flying or in reach, protections from spells, creating cover, assisting with conditions like blind, and other stuff like that.

I'm not looking for a way to make a caster in this position "shine", just want to make them have mechanical fun by giving either objectives (minions, mcguffins or otherwise) that need to be done or a way to ensure that they feel part of the fight.

One of the best examples for what I would be looking for is from Critical Role in their end fight. Their gunslinger had no magical weapon and could do nothing to their end boss but instead he was ensuring that nothing was creeping up on their spellcasters by obliterating the bosses waves of adds. It played to his strength, gave him a feeling of "Yes, I'm helping in the best way I can" and not feel left out. This is a small, but perfect solution to this.

The reason for the concern is that I don't want the player(s) after the high of finishing the campaign say "well, I didn't really feel like I did much during the fight".

Revealing the information ahead of time is gold, I never thought of that. It will mitigate that slightly for the permanent choice spell selected classes a bit, giving them time to re-choose 3-4 spells. Also, I have been heavily weighing on just straight up removing the magic immunity and just staying with the pretty much immune to all debilitating conditions.

 

[MNblockhead]

In support of several other posters, with my spin on their points:

1. While I try to customize things to be interesting and challenging to my players, that doesn't mean perfectly balancing encounters based on their choices. The opposite actually. I'll often try to design encounters that take advantage of blind spots. If a player puts all of a character's eggs in one basket, that's on the player, not me.

2. But don't wait until the capstone encounter, give the players a taste of this every now and then at lower levels, so they see the importance of diversifying their spell list.

3. At higher levels, I would expect that the sorcerer would have some decent magical weapons. Hopefully, they have at least one decent buff spell and they get to play as a melee combatant for once!

4. All buff & heal duties shouldn't always fall on the cleric's shoulders, more than one party member should have supporting powers and be able to step in that role when there are more valuable in that capacity in a specific fight.

5. It isn't just magic immunity, but features like the anti-magic cone of the Astral-Dreadnaught can be fun to make magic users more tactical and shake them out of their reliance on the same spells, roles, and tactics.

 

[MonkeezOnFire]

Adding minions is the simplest solution as already pointed out by many others. It helps the boss not get focus fired too much and overall adds complexity to the battle which for the climax is probably a good thing.

Another method would be to add some additional goals/stakes to the final fight for the caster to work towards. A Mcguffin must be destroyed or powered down or else it will grant buffs to the enemies or harm innocent people. It can be hard to design these so that they don't feel "gamey" but if done right it can make the fight more dynamic and interesting.

 

[devincutler]

Give the sorcerer a special one time item that casts Tenser's Transformation on him (no concentration required). Since the spell effects are balanced for a wizard, there should be no balance issues for the sorcerer to use it. Then watch him charge!

 

[Moorcrys]

If you're talking about an end of campaign huge boss fight with a god-like being such as Tiamat... There are certainly other god-like beings with agendas contrary to those of the one you're fighting who may just boost your magical punch for one fight. For a price. Or a little favor. Or if you just sign a contract by pricking your finger and signing this scroll in your own blood... no time to read it! Better decide quick! Etc. Think of it as a possibility to continue the story or open up a new one.

I might also allow a wish spell to allow a caster to affect a certain creature with magic for one fight (with the chance of dire consequences since it's outside of the bullet point 'safe' uses of the wish spell). If you let your characters know the challenge beforehand you can have them quest for that spell leading up to the final battle (on a scroll, or in a magical item like a ring).

 

[Raif]

If you're talking about an end of campaign huge boss fight with a god-like being such as Tiamat... There are certainly other god-like beings with agendas contrary to those of the one you're fighting who may just boost your magical punch for one fight. For a price. Or a little favor. Or if you just sign a contract by pricking your finger and signing this scroll in your own blood... no time to read it! Better decide quick! Etc. Think of it as a possibility to continue the story or open up a new one.

I might also allow a wish spell to allow a caster to affect a certain creature with magic for one fight (with the chance of dire consequences since it's outside of the bullet point 'safe' uses of the wish spell). If you let your characters know the challenge beforehand you can have them quest for that spell leading up to the final battle (on a scroll, or in a magical item like a ring).

This... this is good! I love this idea. It requires a little forethought but can have some far reaching consequences.

 

[Warpiglet]

Being concerned is good!

That said, I would agree with most of the other posters who have said they wouldn't change anything.

Look, D&D is about the party. Not everyone is going to be equally adept at every combat. And, TBH, if there is a single combat, at one time, when the caster isn't able to use every single spell in his repertoire? That's not going to break the game, and shouldn't be a concern for any functioning party.

I read this-
"Welp, I've got 3 spell slots that can affect Tiamat/Vecna so let me just be a haste/polymorph/shield of faith bot, run for cover, and counterspell/dispel. Much heroic, such wow, much fun."

My thought was- wow! If I played with someone like that, well, I wouldn't play with that person. But that's me. It's not my job, as a DM, to make sure that every combat (even the final one) is perfectly adjusted to allow each and every player to feel perfectly heroic.

Because the players make their characters heroic, not me.

Yeah, and sometimes they die (at least in my game experience). I relate to what you are saying...I used to like the freewheeling chaos of AD&D 1e. Some fights were NOT beneficial and if you were stupid to start it, hopefully you can move quickly!

Then again I also do not related to "spotlight." We just hoped to survive and high-fived if we did! It was always dangerous and sometimes you suck. I recall having one magic weapon once that had to be retrieved when the first wielder fell. One person's non-heroic is another's white knuckle excitement!

 

[nswanson27]

To add what others have already said - putting too many cushions up might make the fight less fun and the victory less sweet if they players feel like they were being pampered too much. Not that i think giving some hints crosses that line, but just be aware that can happen too.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

A beholder's Anti-Magic Cone is a real pain, but you can move to get out of it.

It is a 150ft cone. Since it can move it each round, you effectively can't move out of its range. Given the antimagic nature, the beholder doesn't just neutralise "high level non-flexible casters", it takes out everyone!

Beholders are scary in a way demons and dragons will never be. Which is as it should be.