Advice: Overpowered Abilities

[ad_hoc]

For example, a great weapon master/polearm master with 3 attacks at 5th level each potentially doing an extra +10 damage, similar ranged builds using crossbow expert/sharpshooter .. these are very powerful builds but I rarely see DMs banning them. On the other hand, healing spirit, whose only redeeming feature is that it does quite a lot of out of combat healing for a second level spell is consider OP and gets banned by some?

Paladin/sorcerer smite builds.
Sorerer/Warlock eldritch blast builds.

Our table doesn't use any of these things.

We're still playing D&D 'the right way'.

On the other hand, why ban one spell? I haven't found a single spell that is in any way really overpowered. Healing Spirit (if that is the spell being discussed) is far from OP. The only "problem" with it is that it is typically more effective than other out of combat healing options and the possibility of letting everyone in a party receive 10d6 of healing (or 10d6+40 in the case of a life cleric multiclass) can be useful.

The problem with Healing Spirit is that it invalidates other ways to heal. That is what overpowered means. It is the one thing needed for healing, all other abilities are meaningless. That isn't fun. The world doesn't explode, it just makes for a game that is less fun. So...just don't use it. Why isn't this an option that is considered reasonable? Because it is in a published book?

...or just use it in reasonably - 1 heal per round. Then it's a fun spell and the table doesn't have to 'game' it.

 

[Cascade]

Yeah, I think we have entirely different views on the game.

I guess I could see your point of view if the DM was being paid by the players.

But even then all the players would likely be on the same page about things. I wouldn't play at a table with '1 or 2 bad players' that need to be countered. Life is too short. I want to play a fun game where I socialize with people, not fight with them.



Okay you shouldn't tell people who are good or bad 'judges'.

And why is this 'imagination' and complicated work arounds easier than just not allowing the spell? It's so much simpler and easier to just not have the spell. I don't get it.

I get this is how you like to play and that's fine but remember that other people may play differently. I would wager that 95% of tables don't have your mindset.

I play mainly organized play, especially big conventions (Gencon, Origins, WF, Gamehole, etc.) and sometimes spend entire weekends gaming with new people, so you don't always have the choice of game mates. Bad musters happen.

I tend to run more inclusive on allowing players to do and try stuff as opposed to banning material.
Example; I have played a cleric of Bane in AL since season 2 who is now 16th level. Every adventure I start off with introductions and put out an alms box and ask for donations to the church for a blessing in return. Players that do donate anything, get an aid spell of my second highest slot. Those that don't, well don't. I've tracked it on my logs and have received over 2k gold given to the church (I don't keep any). Only twice at conventions can I remember anyone objecting on the RP, more from I'm good and wont donate but I insist you cast the spell on me anyway. I shrug and move on. Other players have commented on how the RP presents the character in a meaningful RP way and sets the tone for the next few hours.

If I sit at a table and judge decides not to allow that spell; just because...I have to ask, what else do you think I cant use? I have spirit guardians and my concentration is quite high. I use dimension door as a war cleric to get the drop on opponents...what is taboo on any given day of the week?

TL;DR: The judge doesn't always know what the players story or background is for using a spell or feature. How much energy and time he put into the character for the game...the judge can always fix it behind the scenes.

...95 is a big number.

Also, good and bad judges are easy to see...The Heralds Guild has some very good courses on Judging and "How to Entertain".
It's never about rules or exclusions...just the players.

 

[ad_hoc]

TL;DR: The judge doesn't always know what the players story or background is for using a spell or feature. How much energy and time he put into the character for the game...the judge can always fix it behind the scenes.

...95 is a big number.

Also, good and bad judges are easy to see...The Heralds Guild has some very good courses on Judging and "How to Entertain".
It's never about rules or exclusions...just the players.

As of May 2018 it is estimated that there are over 15 million active players in North America alone.

Gen Con's attendance is estimated at over 60,000. Many of whom don't play RPGs while there. Even if we were to say that there are 100,000 people in North America who play RPGs at conventions, which I think is a very generous number, that brings us to 99.3% of people who don't. So your experience amounts for, at most, .67% of 5e players in NA.

That doesn't mean that your experience is invalid, it just means it isn't the norm. At our table if someone tried to use Healing Spirit like that we would look at them funny. If that is indicative of their playstyle they probably wouldn't be invited back. I bet that is true of the majority of tables. People are just there to play a casual social game with their friends.

 

[Nagol]

Explain what is making you uncomfortable and why. Ask the group if it has any suggestions. Add your own. Talk through to a solution. Likely, most of the players won't care one way or another. A couple of players may have a stake, but a compromise is almost certainly easy to reach at this stage.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The problem with Healing Spirit is that it invalidates other ways to heal.

No. No it doesn't.

Out of combat healing is easily achieved by short rests and guzzling healing potions. Since 5e lacks money-sinks, there is no reason a party can't carry dozens of the things.

So only in-combat healing matters. And if players really know what they are doing, they will have used their spells to avoid the damage in the first place, which is better than any healing.

Using any 2nd level spell slot out of combat is a waste.

 

[Cascade]

As of May 2018 it is estimated that there are over 15 million active players in North America alone.

Gen Con's attendance is estimated at over 60,000. Many of whom don't play RPGs while there. Even if we were to say that there are 100,000 people in North America who play RPGs at conventions, which I think is a very generous number, that brings us to 99.3% of people who don't. So your experience amounts for, at most, .67% of 5e players in NA.

That doesn't mean that your experience is invalid, it just means it isn't the norm. At our table if someone tried to use Healing Spirit like that we would look at them funny. If that is indicative of their playstyle they probably wouldn't be invited back. I bet that is true of the majority of tables. People are just there to play a casual social game with their friends.

I must say, you are very impressive.

I travel a fair bit and have the privilege to visit conventions all around the country; from Vegas to Toronto to New Jersey. I see maybe 300 new and unique people to game with each year, but one as yourself, to know the desires (or norm) of almost 15 million players, that it simply amazing.

/bye

 

[guachi]

For those who find out of combat healing so trivially easy, why even bother tracking it at all? All PCs have maximum HP after every combat. Done.

For "fun" I played a few AL sessions after Xanathar's came out where I played my Ranger and we also had a Druid (both of us level 5) so she could take Healing Spirit. We had a maximum size party, which I think is seven.

Just to see how Healing Spirit affected play, no one really tried in combat to optimize attacks or defense. No one really thought about what to do, they just attacked. Mostly the most basic attack and quickly rolled dice. One result was combat ended quicker (which is a good thing) as people didn't think about what to do. On the other hand, we did take more damage. But it didn't matter in the slightest as we had enough Healing Spirits to bring everyone back to max HP. No one spent any HD.

It was a really boring two sessions. The combat was probably the most pointless combat I've had playing D&D.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

For those who find out of combat healing so trivially easy, why even bother tracking it at all? All PCs have maximum HP after every combat. Done.

For "fun" I played a few AL sessions after Xanathar's came out where I played my Ranger and we also had a Druid (both of us level 5) so she could take Healing Spirit. We had a maximum size party, which I think is seven.

Just to see how Healing Spirit affected play, no one really tried in combat to optimize attacks or defense. No one really thought about what to do, they just attacked. Mostly the most basic attack and quickly rolled dice. One result was combat ended quicker (which is a good thing) as people didn't think about what to do. On the other hand, we did take more damage. But it didn't matter in the slightest as we had enough Healing Spirits to bring everyone back to max HP. No one spent any HD.

It was a really boring two sessions. The combat was probably the most pointless combat I've had playing D&D.

I don't really see how you can play 5e RAW and not find out of combat healing trivially easy. And I agree, it isn't really worth keeping track of hp out of combat.

As for players playing dumb, that's the fault of the players, not the spell. And the difficulty bar on 5e being set so low that it doesn't really require the players to think if you take the recommended challenge ratings literally.

 

[Satyrn]

For those who find out of combat healing so trivially easy, why even bother tracking it at all? All PCs have maximum HP after every combat. Done.

I think that could work out immensely well if PC maximum hit point totals were reduced significantly (like, they get 1 hit point level after 1st). I'd probably add some sort of rule for injuries, though, so that faring badly in one fight has an impact on the future fights.

 

[smbakeresq]

As far as healing spirit..Healer feat is level + 4+ d6 as an action per rest. At the level you would get Healing Spirit that average would be 10.5, or 42 for a group of 4, and costs no resources. For 2 rests it’s 84 in healing and costs just the healing kit. Inspiring Leader heals you before your even hurt for approximately the same amount. Save your spell slots.

Heat Metal isn’t overpowered, it’s great fun. Every single PC I use it against thinks it’s a dirty rotten trick to penalize them for wearing armor and being under affects of Bless spell. It is of course.

As a side note, I use Medicine skill instead of flat +4 bonus to encourage skill use, which is good IMO.