Allowing PCs to be heroic

[Knight_Arothir]

I think it's dependant on many factors. Firstly, you need to make sure the game mechanics that you're using allow for heroic characters doing heroic things.

Secondly, the players need to make their characters -act heroicly-. No matter what you do, if they don't act the part, they're not going to seem heroic.


How do I, as a DM, make the PCs feel more heroic? A few things:

1) Hero Points. Or Action Points, or whatever you want to call them.

2) New Critical Hit rules. I like realistic heroics. Slicing off limbs, et al. So I use Torn Asunder when playing the d20 system. But I've also changed the rules a bit so that it's harder to confirm a critical against a Player Character. And sometimes, depending on the game, I disallow mooks from critting at all. Which allows the PCs to wade through large amounts of minions to get to more powerful leaders and captains.

 

[Kurotowa]

A small but crucial trick is how you narrate the action. When a skill roll is unsuccessful, describe it as due to the great challange and not PC incompetence. When an attack roll is unsuccessful, describe it as a furious exchange of parries or a last minute shield block instead of the PC weakly flailing and missing. When a rolls is successful, narrate how the PC battled through great difficultly to overcome (for a slim success) or overpowered the obstacle with effortless brilliance.

In other words, treat them like heroes. Heroes look heroic even when events go against them. Even when Jackie Chan is getting beat down by three guys he still looks good. So find ways to narrate events such that the PCs look good at whatever their particular style is, so that failure comes from powerful opposition and not incompetence, and so that success is played out in impressive form.

 

[Old One]

The answer, I suspect, as it is with many of these questions is "It Depends."

It depends on the kind of campaign you are running, you players (and what motivates them) and what in-game definitions of "heroic" are...

(1) Type of Campaign - What might be heroic in a FR - raise an open revolt against the Zhentarim and best them on the field of battle - is nigh suicidal in a Midnight campaign (at least in the early stages). Likewise, heroics in a city-centered cloak and dagger campaign - unmasking the King's senechal as a shapechanging double-agent from a neighboring kingdom may not fit very well in a "barbarian hordes are overruning the kingdom" scenario.

(2) Your Players - You may like to create deeply interwoven threads of conflict with family, friends, enemies, mentors and followers of the PCs...presenting gray-area moral dilemmas with no clear resolution (or a lesser of several evils approach). Each campaign element might have a deep, dark secret that can be uncovered with proper digging and PC development (I tend to do a lot of this, BTW). But if a player (or players) definition of heroic is killing things and taking their stuff...this type of campaign might not be very satisfying for them. I have found that, in running the former type of campaign, it is important to give the PCs some scenarios that ARE straight-up...with a clear-cut victory (or defeat) so they can get some closure from time to time.

(3) One of the most interesting things I have played with is different societal "norms" - within the same campaign - on what is "heroic". For instance, in the Kingdom of Nobilia - calling out a dragon in single combat, even if you know you are going to get toasted, is considered heroic. In the neighboring Kingdom of Dogpilia, such "heroics" are considered stupid...whereas use of ambush, subterfuge and poison are time-honored tactics worthy of the highest respect.

~ OO

 

[Philip]

Heroic is to me:

A situation where the PCs can make a significant difference in the world (one that impacts others as well as themselves) or do unbelievable things where others can, will or dare not.

They braved the dungeon where no-one else returned from.
They defeated the dragon that the knightly order didn't dare to attack and the villagers sacrificied their virgins to.
They discover a hidden cache of powerful magic that has been kept a secret for centuries.

As for the type of 'heroism' mentioned in some of the posts, invoving action points etc., in some cases that's more like valor to me. Bravery and skill in combat.

Note that by my definition villains can be heroic too. Its all about making the players feel empowered & special through their characters. Sometimes a good critical will do that, sometimes it takes a good critical against the nemesis that everyone thought unbeatable.

 

[gizmo33]

Well, psychological stuff. I tend to like character interaction--intrigue, romance, backstory coming back to haunt the PC--in addition to hack n' slash.

People who play RPGs come in different varieties. Hack-and-slash, puzzle solving, role playing, politics, angst, etc (somewhere there should be a FAQ describing this). Some people prefer these in different proportions. IMO a game like DnD needs the events to center around something to gain or lose. That "something" can be a vorpal blade, or a long-lost relative. But not everybody likes the same thing in this case. In fact, most players I know would much prefer the vorpal blade.

Now to some extent - who cares about what most players prefer? What's the point of DMing if you don't like the game that you play? Catering to the interests of 90% of RPGers isn't necessarily worth it. DMing is alot of work, might was well enjoy it.

One time at a con, I played in a Pendragon game where the GM put us into a scenario where our knights were at a party and suppose to hobnob with some damsels. Out of 8 people, 7 of them were avoiding their damsel and combing the castle for something to kill. They were bored and the GM wasn't happy (from what I could tell).

So do you want to please 90% of people with a style that you don't like, or 10% of people with one that you do? I guess if you go the 10% route you'll have to figure a way of letting people know what you're game is about and not getting into a situation where the players and your expectations are at odds. Or maybe there's a comprimise.

Reading your style, the ideas that you use aren't a whole lot different than mine. The main difference might be the degree to which we develop the details. I certainly would have someone's sister show up and call a red dragon into town. The difference might be that the someone might then haul off and fireball the sister, and that's ok with me.

 

[deltadave]

The truth of it is that Heroism is difficult. Not only should it be difficult physically but morally as well... Hacking your way thru a horde of orcs can be difficult physically, but isn't really heroic if it isn't in the service of a higher cause.

In my experience, most players aren't heroic. They are only interested in survival and accumulating wealth and power. It is also my experience that most DM's don't give PC's a chance to be heroic for any of a multitude of reasons.

DM's - be fair, but also be tough, a hard won battle is more appreciated than a cake walk and if a few characters fall by the wayside in pursuit of a hihger goal, it make success all the sweeter if it happens.
Players - go for the brass ring. If your character dies in a blaze of glory, that is as much of a memory as a successful quest.

 

[BSF]

Okay, as a point of clarification, I'm told that this is my version of the situation: do I have a red dragon attack or do I have the PCs long lost sister show up intent on summoning a red dragon?

Heh - I once had somebody's long lost sister show up with an undead army in tow. *shrug* What can I say? The player named the long lost sister Evilyn. I couldn't let that opportunity go by.

The PCs eventually saved the sister and brought her back into the fold of Good. In that same campaign, the Paladin held off an ancient evil while his companions shut the portal that would allow that evil to overwhelm the world - trapping the paladin with the evil. He knew he would die. He also knew that if somebody didn't sacrifice himself, the world would be a much worse place. Another character faced a creature that could devour your soul (thus preventing any sort of raising magic) just to protect his fallen liege lord. He died - permanently. These were just a few of the heroics in that campaign. Sometimes the PCs were victorious. Sometimes they weren't. Failure is as much a growing experience as success.

I see no reason why you shouldn't use the long lost sister to summon a red dragon. But as others have pointed out, not every incident in the game needs to revolve around something deeply personal to the PCs. Psychological Gut Shot - I like that term. The problem is that if everything is a gut shot, it eventually loses it's impact.

Everything in moderation.

 

[Rafael Ceurdepyr]

The truth of it is that Heroism is difficult. Not only should it be difficult physically but morally as well... Hacking your way thru a horde of orcs can be difficult physically, but isn't really heroic if it isn't in the service of a higher cause.

I agree with your definition of heroism, as well as several others who've defined it similarly. To tell the truth, the more I think about this, the more unsure I am what my mentor was referring to. I need to pin him down on that.

 

[Rafael Ceurdepyr]

A small but crucial trick is how you narrate the action. When a skill roll is unsuccessful, describe it as due to the great challange and not PC incompetence.

I certainly agree with you that narration is important for encouraging heroism. When I referred to flaws, though, I didn't mean ability flaws, but personality flaws. I never want the PCs to feel incompetent--I've been on the other side way too many times.

 

[Endur]

As a GM, sometimes its important to let the rules slide and focus on the story. Not on the story from the perspective of the GM, but the story from the perspective of the PCs.

That's hard to learn, and even harder to do. But it is the difference between a Good GM and a Great GM.