alternative to drow in Giants/Vault of the Drow series

[diaglo]

I'm thinking of running a modified version of the old school series starting with Against the Giants and going through the Vault of the Drow. However, I realized that one of the cool things about those modules was the fact that nobody knew anything about the drow back then. My players have fought drow before, but never really adventured in the Underdark. I would like to throw something at them that would be an alternative to the drow used in those modules but still fit in the Underdark. I want to try and keep them on their toes and achieve that "what the heck are these things" feel I had when I first went through the Giants modules. Also, I want to try and avoid metagame thinking such as "everyone knows drow can cast darkness, be prepared." Any suggestions? Has anyone played through these modules using a drow alternative? Thanks.

another idea which has been used often but maybe not by your group.

change the Underdark to Underwater.

change the race to sea devils... sahaugin. or the ixitacls (sp?)

 

[Chaldfont]

I am thinking of doing this too, but we've done the drow thing in a previous adventure. I was thinking of using duergar and making them the masters of battle. I plan to introduce a bunch of rules from the Book of Iron Might to make the combats more exciting.

Another idea is to just make something up. Most of my players are so steeped in D&D lore that there is no monster they haven't seen before. Sometimes I grab a few monsters, take an interesting sample of their abilities and create an entirely new monster from the mess.

There's nothing that scares a player more than an unknown monster using unknown spells, abilities and items.

 

[Garnfellow]

I don't know much of Arcana Unearthed, what are these Vallorians? I'm looking for something humonoid that doesn't carry too high a CR so that I can add class levels to the bad guys and still stay within acceptable encounter levels for a 12 or 13th level party.

I think they would work perfectly. Here is everything you ever wanted to know about Vallorians but were afraid to ask:

• Playing Vallorians: http://www.montecook.com/arch_stuff68.html
• Vallorian Living Arms and Armor: http://www.montecook.com/arch_stuff69.html
• Valorian culture: http://www.montecook.com/arch_stuff70.html

The living arms and armor were what really did it for me -- awesome concept, not used enough in D&D.

[As an aside, does anyone else find it almost impossible to find anything on the redesigned Monte Cook website? Both Google and their own search engine were not helpful in finding these old articles?]

 

[Garnfellow]

The Vallorians are exactly what you are looking for, but if you do not have access to Legacy of the Dragons you will find it extremely hard to implement them.

I think you can still get Legacy of the Dragons as a pdf download for $8 or so. The rest of the book is pretty good, as well

 

[painandgreed]

Mindflayers, Absoleths(sp?), or the other creatures in the upcoming Lords of Madness book would work. All might be just as well known by players however. Continuing the giants thing to stone and cloud might work. There is also the humanoid race in the Underdark book that might fit the bill. ...or, in Dr. Who fashion have it revealed that the true controlers of the giants are the Sontarans, Cybermen, Zygons, or the Daleks. They'll never expect any of those monsters.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

[As an aside, does anyone else find it almost impossible to find anything on the redesigned Monte Cook website? Both Google and their own search engine were not helpful in finding these old articles?]

Oh yes. I cannot fathom why it was reorganized the way it was.

 

[direcow]

I think they would work perfectly. Here is everything you ever wanted to know about Vallorians but were afraid to ask:

• Playing Vallorians: http://www.montecook.com/arch_stuff68.html
• Vallorian Living Arms and Armor: http://www.montecook.com/arch_stuff69.html
• Valorian culture: http://www.montecook.com/arch_stuff70.html

The living arms and armor were what really did it for me -- awesome concept, not used enough in D&D.

Thanks for the links. From the little bit I glanced at it looks like my players are going to meet up with the elusive vallorians. I might throw some drow in there as well for consistency, since they have already faced off with a handfull of drow and it is generally believed that they populate the underdark. As for the suggestion regarding durger, I plan on using them, but don't want them to be my main evil force.

 

[demiurge1138]

How about derro? I love these guys, but I've never ever seen them given their due.

Demiurge out.

 

[Garnfellow]

Oh yes. I cannot fathom why it was reorganized the way it was.

To get those Vallorian links, I tried Google. Total failure.

I tried the site's search engine. Total failure.

Then I tried to navigate through the reorganized content trees. Gave up after about 15 minutes.

Then I went to the Internet Archive, pulled up a copy of their site from last year, and found what I was looking for in about two minutes.

 

[John Morrow]

How about derro? I love these guys, but I've never ever seen them given their due.

I think Derro could work and there was a lot more information about the Derro in the 2nd Edition:

http://www.planetadnd.com/interactive_books/mm00085.php

Derro, as written, don't have Darkvision, which always seemed a bit odd to me, since just about every underground creature in 3E seems to. Because of that, their looks, the madness, and because all of the Derro pictured are male, I made mine a failed magical experiment to create a half-dwarf (human-dwarf hybrid) that are always male and always breed true but need humans or dwarves to mother their children. The nice thing about the lack of dark vision is that it gives the GM an excuse to light up their settlements so they contrast better with the darkness of the rest of the adventure.