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D&D 4E Am I crazy? I've just gotten a hankering to play 4e again...

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
"Slay army".
hehehe, requires an adjustment if used against a swarm in my opinion (which is the most likely way I would present an army anyway), 2/3rd s hit points lost if used against a swarm.


I picture Elric raising Stormbringer over his head and summoning the duplicate black swords from across the dimensions for a momentary end of times echo.
 
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NotAYakk

Legend
The 5 ghostblades where held for execution. The entire city, all 100000 of us, where present to watch.

Then they disappeared, their bindings falling to the floor. A brief scuffle. Then.. then...

I was lucky. I had heard my child's cry, and had moved from the window to see why she cried.
 

On that teleport front, one of my players built up entirely to be able to use the avenger's sequestering strike, which on hit lets them teleport their target 1+dex modifier squares and then teleport to a space next to them, to go straight up, and put her self diagonally adjacent to their target, and then have both fall to take extra damage. she then took proficiency in acrobatics to help mitigate fall damage, and sought out both cat step boots and a neck slot item that reduces fall damage to become an FF dragoon. It was amazing to see her open a fight with angelic alacrity(lets your essentially dash before the attack) the use an action point to grab some bad guy and throw them both high in the air, and this was just one character in this over the top party. The edition just lends itself to such cool stories both at and away from the table.
 


4e had Terrain powers -- arent those just lair actions everyone can use?
Those are in fact that. I was making reference to the legendary actions that some monsters get to use at the end of other creatures turns. Not quite the immediate actions of the system, more like no actions that use a pool of available options off the monster's turn.

I did make fair use of terrain actions, especially to make some of my boss monsters really pop. I even made some items that let players set up terrain actions to give them more battlefield shaping ability.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Those are in fact that. I was making reference to the legendary actions that some monsters get to use at the end of other creatures turns. Not quite the immediate actions of the system, more like no actions that use a pool of available options off the monster's turn.
5e monsters need several somethings badly in my opinion I think they are baf, 4e needs significantly less but I like multi-stage encounters and waves of minions and similar transitions. Clever use to minions or powers that interact with them added to solos and so on.
 

Oh, 5e monsters need a ton of help. some of them are fine, like beholders, but most of them are the "bag of hp with some amount of hurting numbers" that are kinda boring after about 2 rounds. What I love about the legendary action idea though is the ability to add interesting new quirks to a monster off turn that can tell some of its story, like a prowling beast moving at the end of someone's turn to set up for a pounce, or having an enchanter controlling pawns. Those little actions that 4e uses immediate actions for, but since you get three a round, it lets you do smaller more nuanced things for that enemy. I tend to like movement abilities in that slot a lot, to keep fights from devolving into the stand still and hit guys thing that most 5e fights become, as without that, it is mostly disincentivized for characters to do more than set up shop and start hacking away or chucking fireballs.

I won't say some 4e parties don't have that problem, a good fighter or warden wants people to stay exactly where they are. but most classes and monsters gain something from changing position and there is so much forced movement, it almost requires those move actions. I was so excited to see that 5e was finally making movement a pool to be use through the turn, as that allowed for dramatic hit and run tactics, but honestly, only the rogue and monk really have any use for that without some real brain bending. I hate fights that feel like an old final fantasy or dragon quest fight where we all stand around and throw numbers at each other, until someone's numbers hit 0. That is why I loved using all kinds of terrain in 4e, and my most memorable encounters in 5e involved cool environments, since all the bad guys just move somewhere and hit the attack button.
 

Those are in fact that. I was making reference to the legendary actions that some monsters get to use at the end of other creatures turns. Not quite the immediate actions of the system, more like no actions that use a pool of available options off the monster's turn.

I did make fair use of terrain actions, especially to make some of my boss monsters really pop. I even made some items that let players set up terrain actions to give them more battlefield shaping ability.
Terrain Powers can be written any old way you want. So they certainly CAN be restricted to use by the monsters, although I think it is generally more cool if they aren't.

As for 5e's Legendary Actions, they can be easily written into a 4e stat block, and quite a few monsters have things which are basically equivalent (as pointed out there are interrupts, reactions, and triggered no-actions). Some 4e monsters also get extra turns or 'turn-like' intervals (dragons classically). These all serve the same purpose, 5e just gave them a specific flavor and due to lacking various action rules had to make them a special type of rule all of its own. That's cool, but it amuses me when people bring this up as such a big deal feature of 5e, like it wasn't there in 4e...
 

Oh, 5e monsters need a ton of help. some of them are fine, like beholders, but most of them are the "bag of hp with some amount of hurting numbers" that are kinda boring after about 2 rounds. What I love about the legendary action idea though is the ability to add interesting new quirks to a monster off turn that can tell some of its story, like a prowling beast moving at the end of someone's turn to set up for a pounce, or having an enchanter controlling pawns. Those little actions that 4e uses immediate actions for, but since you get three a round, it lets you do smaller more nuanced things for that enemy. I tend to like movement abilities in that slot a lot, to keep fights from devolving into the stand still and hit guys thing that most 5e fights become, as without that, it is mostly disincentivized for characters to do more than set up shop and start hacking away or chucking fireballs.

I won't say some 4e parties don't have that problem, a good fighter or warden wants people to stay exactly where they are. but most classes and monsters gain something from changing position and there is so much forced movement, it almost requires those move actions. I was so excited to see that 5e was finally making movement a pool to be use through the turn, as that allowed for dramatic hit and run tactics, but honestly, only the rogue and monk really have any use for that without some real brain bending. I hate fights that feel like an old final fantasy or dragon quest fight where we all stand around and throw numbers at each other, until someone's numbers hit 0. That is why I loved using all kinds of terrain in 4e, and my most memorable encounters in 5e involved cool environments, since all the bad guys just move somewhere and hit the attack button.
In all fairness, this is really true of any edition. 4e fights would end up being very static if there wasn't a good bit of room to move around and some powers, or something else, to make people want to move. It was pretty easy to make that happen in 4e as soon as you grasped the concept. Sadly it wasn't really well explained in any of the books, and the adventures pretty much flopped on doing it (there are some cases where they got close, Kobold Hall had a couple of medium good ones).
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Terrain Powers can be written any old way you want. So they certainly CAN be restricted to use by the monsters, although I think it is generally more cool if they aren't.

As for 5e's Legendary Actions, they can be easily written into a 4e stat block, and quite a few monsters have things which are basically equivalent (as pointed out there are interrupts, reactions, and triggered no-actions). Some 4e monsters also get extra turns or 'turn-like' intervals (dragons classically). These all serve the same purpose, 5e just gave them a specific flavor and due to lacking various action rules had to make them a special type of rule all of its own. That's cool, but it amuses me when people bring this up as such a big deal feature of 5e, like it wasn't there in 4e...
OR they felt necessary to make the base version of monster BLEH and move the interesting things out of them because tedious hit point attrition is a "play style."
 

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