D&D 5E An alternative to eight hour healing

[Geoarrge]

For me, the problem is this:
The natural consequence for losing a battle is whatever the bad guys are able to do unhindered while the PCs are recovering. If recovery is only eight hours, then those consequences are limited to whatever the bad guys can do in eight hours, which isn't actually that much without high-level magic. Putting aside whether it's realistic to recover from near death overnight, it feels underwhelming to say that the consequence for almost dying is-- some traps get re-armed, a few barricades slapped together, there might be a messenger out on the way to warn allies, or the bad guys have packed up and moved but the trail is still fresh.

 

[Yaarel]

I use three Homebrew rules to address this (when we're playing our typical gamestyle, which is gritty with the expectation of lots of folk dying).

1. Vigor/Health - I divide hit points into Vigor and Health. Vigor is more of stamina; you strain yourself to avoid the giant's club inflicting 30 some odd damage. Once Vigor is gone, your damage goes to Health. This represents actual wounds and is considerably more difficult to recover. (So Damage goes Vigor > Health).
2. Adjusting Healing - Fighter's second wind can only recover Vigor. Hit Dice only recover Vigor. Magical healing is maximized when -only- healing Vigor. It is still rolled to recover Health, even if that health healing would spill over into Vigor recovery. (So Healing goes Health > Vigor).
3. Hit Dice - Since spending Hit Dice only restores Vigor, it no longer requires a short rest (though appropriate class abilities do). Players can even use an action to catch their breath in combat should they choose, once per combat. No single use of spending hit dice can exceed half your maximum hit dice.
4. Rest / Recovery - A Long Rest only restores an amount of Health equal to your Constitution Modifier. It restores all of your Vigor, and Half of your Hit Dice. If a spellcaster is down any Health after this Long Rest, they have to roll a Meditation Check (Key Casting Stat + Proficiency). If they fail this check, they only get half their spell points back / slots back. (In High-Magic settings, I typically disregard the spellcaster roll).

I understand these are fairly complex, but we all played AD&D together and have just always loved a grittier, more realistic threat to our characters - it's just our thing. You won't hurt my feelings by finding them too complex, or even too gritty, but I thought I'd share for those interested in a similar play style.

This is decent.

Along these lines:
• all Constitution hit points = physical health
• all class hit points = nontangeable vigor

This keeps the two hit point pools clear and neatly separated.

It works even better if, 4e style, using the Constitution score for hit points instead of modifier per level.

 

[Xaelvaen]

This is decent.

Along these lines:
• all Constitution hit points = physical health
• all class hit points = nontangeable vigor

This keeps the two hit point pools clear and neatly separated.

It works even better if, 4e style, using the Constitution score for hit points instead of modifier per level.

I actually took it from Monte Cook's Book of Eldritch Might (I think that's the name of it). It was the first place I saw the concept of dividing hit points into Vigor and Health, so I just use his old formula from 3rd edition, but yeah basically, you're spot on. Hit Die = Vigor, Con = Health - and yeah, we start with the full Constitution Score at 1st level, and Con Mod at each additional level.

The biggest reason for the last adjustment is for those first 3 levels, just a touch of toughness that really is unimportant at the later levels - won't notice it.

 

[Yaarel]

I actually took it from Monte Cook's Book of Eldritch Might (I think that's the name of it). It was the first place I saw the concept of dividing hit points into Vigor and Health, so I just use his old formula from 3rd edition, but yeah basically, you're spot on. Hit Die = Vigor, Con = Health - and yeah, we start with the full Constitution Score at 1st level, and Con Mod at each additional level.

The biggest reason for the last adjustment is for those first 3 levels, just a touch of toughness that really is unimportant at the later levels - won't notice it.

Huh, it never occurred to me to use both the score and then the modifier while leveling. But, yeah, that seems fine.

Out of curiosity, in your experience, does using both the score and the modifier make Constitution more important to have a ‘good’ score in it, less important, or no noticeable difference?

 

[Xaelvaen]

Huh, it never occurred to me to use both the score and then the modifier while leveling. But, yeah, that seems fine.

Out of curiosity, in your experience, does using both the score and the modifier make Constitution more important to have a ‘good’ score in it, less important, or no noticeable difference?

In truth, it hasn't affected my players' desires of how to build a character - if someone wants Con to be their low, or at least moderately low stat, they'll still go with it - the hit point difference at first through third levels just lets them be a bit tougher than typical early characters - which is exactly my intent. I guess overall, as to the balance of a high con player versus a low con player, I don't think it changes much.

I'll note a couple of things about my typical group of players, though, which might make this view useful or useless; one, they never put Con as a dump stat. I occasionally have the lovely lady that likes playing her own interpretation of Raistlin, but even then, she won't drop below a 10 Con - she just uses other flavor to represent the ill health. So I've never really seen the far extremes of the ramifications, such as someone using an 8 for Con - that's just unheard of at my table.

Secondly, my players love it rough around the edges. If I throw a 'medium' encounter at them, they just feel like it's filler and serves no purpose. If it's not hard or deadly, they get bored, regardless of how intrinsic the environment works with the fight. They just like the 'hanging on by a thread' fights. With the extra boost to health, it helps a lot with this regard (early on). By level 12, it's just not even noticeable compared to monster damage output.

 

[CubicsRube]

Instead of that spell/ritual, how about a zone? An 8 hour rest in a sanctuary can restore all HP, etc. But outside a sanctuary, an 8 hr rest only restores hit dice or something like that. In practice you would control the placement of sanctuaries and therefore be able to adjust to any weird issues.

You could also have sanctuaries in flux. Once used they might need time to regain their mojo. Like a magic fountain that restores you but not more often than once a week. Or a cave that glows in the light of the full moon. Perhaps some sanctuaries are permanent (temples and churches, perhaps hospitals and the like - which is why those things were built there in the first place). And maybe they can be corrupted, so you can get some quests out of them if you want.

But the one big effect they'd get you is the one you seem to want - no 8 hr rest to full as a matter of routine.


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I wanted to bring this post again bedcause i think its a brilliant suggestion, and may fit well with the verisimilitude you're seeking.

You could have hit dice only healing as a general rulw but then have magical and divine sites known to be able to help a person of all wounds. Think magical fountains in the middle of a monsters lair, divine shrines in an abandoned and haunted temple, the soul of an angel trapped in a crystal held by a powerful lich lord...

You can tie healing into the narrative of your world and also pace ot how you want. Want to string your players along a little? They just havent found that holy place yet! Players desperate for some healing? They come upon an alcove with a radiant being trapped in stone that can offer healing, but there is am item they need to retrieve for their lord...

In fact i think im talking myself into it for the next 5e campaign i run...

 

[EvanNave55]

Thanks for the replies. Some very good stuff here.




I think having the spell be a ritual rather than a cantrip is a better idea. I had thought of that but I got stuck on the ten minute ritual casting time, but I suppose there's no reason a ritual couldn't have a longer casting time.

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First off, sorry for semi-necroing this thread, but I saw a comment from the original poster about the problem and ritual casting that no one ever corrected. Also it hasn't been super long so it's only kind of a necro.

Alright now to my actual point; a ritual spell doesn't always take 10 minutes. Having an 8hour ritual is nothing out of the ordinary. Ritual spells ADD ten minutes to the casting time. So if you could cast a spell as an action ritual casting it takes ten minutes (plus six seconds) Example: detect magic. Or if a spell takes an hour to cast ritual casting it takes an hour ten minutes. Example: summon familiar.

So having an eight hour long ritual would perfectly normal it'd simply be a spell that had those effects that you wanted and takes eight hours to cast, and ritual casting it would take eight hours ten minutes.

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