• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

An old idea for Multi-classing made new...

Veritas

First Post
In talking to a bunch of people in various games and in online discussions, I've been hearing a lot that the current system for multiclassing just isn't worth it for some class combinations (especially arcane spellcasters). I've taken some ideas from previous editions, mixed them with gestalts and balanced them out using the alternate xp award systems in order to guarentee that they didn't fall too far behind to be effective, but at the same time didn't become too powerful.

Multiclassing
Multiclassing must be declared at the start of a character. You may multiclass in a maximum of two classes, and you cannot multiclass in two similar classes (ie: no barbarian/fighter, fighter/ranger, wizard/sorcerer, cleric/druid, etc). Improbable combinations are not allowed either, such as barbarian/wizard, and classes with a restriction on standard multiclassing (ie: paladins and monks) cannot be multiclassed under this system, only dual-classed. Since simultaneously training to become two classes is difficult and time-consuming, the younger races (with less than 30 years between adulthood and middle age) do not have the time to devote to this kind of study, and can only dual-class. From the PHB, this allows only dwarves, elves, gnomes, half-elves, and halflings to multiclass. Humans and half-orcs can only dual-class. For character age, the dice from both classes are rolled and added together, then applied to the base adulthood age to find the character's starting age.

The multiclassed character starts off with the following stats:

- the hit die of the stronger of the two classes only.
- the Base Attack Bonus of the stronger of the two classes only.
- the save bonuses from the most advantageous class only.
- the weapon and armor proficiencies of the most advantageous class only.
- the skill points of the most advantageous class only (plus any racial bonus skill points) x4
- class skills from both classes.
- one starting feat, as a 1st level character.
- any racial bonus feats (if applicable).
- all class traits from both classes

For example, a half-elf who chooses to multiclass as a fighter/wizard would have a d10 for hit points, the BAB of the fighter, the Fort save of the fighter, the Will save of the wizard (and either Ref save, since they're the same), the skill points from either, since they have the same, his starting feat, and his fighter bonus feat. First level wizard spells, and all weapon and armor proficiencies of the fighter.

After this, the character's earned experience points are divided equally between both classes, except in the case where the DM awards xp specifically to one class or the other. Once one or both of the character's classes reaches the amount of xp needed to rise in level, the class(es) advance(s), and all aspects of the character that come from that class also advance. The character continues to receive only the BAB, hit dice, saves, and skill points from the more advantageous class, not both. If the classes level at different times, due to different xp totals, this means that only some of the character's traits advance (the ones drawn from that specific class), and the rest will only advance once both classes are of the same level. Note: the character's class levels are not added together to find character level in this system, as they are with standard multiclassing. In this case, a 6th/6th level character is counted as being 6th level in all respects, not 12th level, and would be in a group of 8th level single-classed characters if they all started together and advanced from 1st level.

So, to continue the above example, the fighter/wizard above divides his xp equally between both his classes as he adventures, however the DM decides to award an extra 100xp to his wizard class since he solved one encounter entirely with his magic. Thus, when his wizard class reaches 1000xp, his fighter class is only at 900xp (1900xp total). Thus he becomes a 1st/2nd level fighter/wizard. His caster level advances, as does his number of spells per day, and he gets two more spells for his spellbook. His Will save advances, as does his Ref save, and his skill points increase by the appropriate amount. However, his hit points, BAB and Fort save do not advance, and he does not receive his 2nd level bonus fighter feat until he earns enough xp for his fighter amount to reach 1000xp as well. If he'd performed equally in both classes, both his classes would have reached 1000xp at the same time, and all his traits would have advanced at the same time. Note: If the character was a ranger/wizard instead, and thus had the better Ref save and skill points of the Ranger class, when his wizard class advanced first, as above, he'd have to wait until his Ranger class leveled up as well in order to get the extra Ref save and skill points. This is because he gains the more advantageous values from that class, which is still of the lower level.

Optional rule: For arcane spellcaster combinations, the character may give up Armor Proficiency (heavy) and Armor Proficiency (Medium) at 1st level for a 5% reduction in arcane spell failure chance each. They do not have to give up both, but if they give up one, it must be Armor Proficiency (heavy). The reduction counts only for armors the character is proficient in. Wearing any armor they are not proficient in has the entire arcane spell failure chance applied to their casting (in addition to all other penalties for wearing non-proficient armor). If the character possesses only Armor Proficiency (Light) and Armor Proficiency (Medium), they can only give up Armor Proficiency (Medium) to receive the 5% reduction. The character may re-gain the proficiencies they sacrifice later, by selecting them to fill a feat slot, however, they cannot take the feats and then give them up for more of a reduction. This is a one-time only option at 1st level and you can only give up armor feats gained directly from your class for this reduction. Thus, our fighter/wizard can give up both these proficiencies for a total of 10% reduction to arcane spell failure for any light armor he wears, and this 10% reduction will apply to medium armor if he selects Armor Proficiency (Medium) as his 3rd level feat, and it will apply to heavy armors if he selects Armor Proficiency (Heavy) as his 6th level feat. If he chose to only give up Armor Proficiency (Heavy) at the start, he would have a 5% reduction to medium and light armors, and it would apply to heavy armors as well if he took that feat at a later time. The armor proficiencies given up count as fighter bonus feats.

Now, this system works best using either the individual xp rules from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook or the Level-independent XP awards variant system in the Unearthed Arcana. The FRCS system awards greater xp for lower level characters in the group, and by this, the multiclassed character should receive xp as a character of the level of one of their classes (11th/11th level character in a group of 13th level characters would receive xp as if they were 11th level, while the others would receive the amount for 13th level for the same encounter). The level-independent system changes the xp system to something more like previous editions, which meshes very well with this system of multiclassing. Both systems keep the multiclassed character one level behind single-classed at low levels, two levels behind at mid-to-high levels and two to three levels behind at high levels, which is just about at the right power levels to match the other members of the group in ability.

Prestige-classes: The demands of advancing in two classes simultaneously precludes the possiblity of taking on a prestige-class. This is left to those who dual-class.

Dual-classing
Use the methodology of the existing multiclassing rules. Anyone can dual-class. Any combination of classes is possible, based on the rules of the individual classes. You may only advance in two different classes (not including prestige classes).

Optional rule: You may impose a limit that once a character switches from one class to the other, they may only advance as the new class, and may never again increase their first class. This is somewhat in keeping with the original concept for dual-classing, however, I do not think it's particularly necessary to apply this limitation.


Now, there are a few issues here that are small sticking points, such as who is allowed to multiclass and the limitations on prestige classes, but I think I'll leave them up to the individual DM. I am thinking that the barbarian class should be limited to dual-classing only, since the vast majority of barbarians (culturally) are human and half-orc. I think the above works for what I'm looking for, though. If you're going to allow multiclasses to take on a prestige class, I recommend that after meeting all the requirements, the character will advance in only the prestige class. The xp for the prestige class is recorded separately and they applying only half their earned xp after that point to the prestige class, discarding the unused half. If they wish to go back to advancing their multiclasses, they must switch from applying xp to the prestige class back to dividing their total xp between the two multiclasses. Personally, I find this to be a tad too complicated, thus I'm disallowing prestige classes for multiclassed characters.

What does everyone think? (oh, and if this kind of thing has been posted before, my apologies, I don't have search options on the site so I couldn't check if anyone else had done anything similar)
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

glass

(he, him)
Why are you calling the option which is forever restricted to 2 classes 'multi-classing', while the option that could conceivably give you every class in the game is 'dual-classing'?

Actually, I know why: consistancy with 2e terminology. But wouldn't consistancy with 3e terminology make more sense? Especially considering that under 2e style multi-classing, you weren't restricted to 2 classes.

EDIT: Also, you seem to be putting in a lot of restrictions. If you are going to the trouble of implementing a whole new rule, why not make it as flexible as possible? For example, what's wrong with Bar/Wiz? Wizards can't get angry?


glass.
 
Last edited:



Lord Wyrm

First Post
I like it, course I like anything updated but 2nd ed. Its unbalanced at low levels (just like 2nd) but gets weaker as time goes on due to the demands of the XP. Give the ability to take prestige classes but with more DM say so and relax the requirements for which classes can be combined and you'll have my vote.

How about only one class each of any of these four groups restricted by race:

Warrior: Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger, Paladin (provided first level feat is Knightly Training or whatever its called)

Rogue: Bard, Rogue

Mage: Sorceror, Wizard

Priest: Cleric, Druid, Monk (provided first level feat is Monastic Training)
 

Veritas

First Post
glass said:
Why are you calling the option which is forever restricted to 2 classes 'multi-classing', while the option that could conceivably give you every class in the game is 'dual-classing'?

Someone else asked this. See under my newly-renamed "dual-classing" (ie: the old multiclassing), I'm putting in a restriction that you can only take two classes, not including prestige classes. So, I just went with the terminology that was in place for the 20 or so years before 3e turned up (and I'm more a 1e fan, myself. :p). It's entirely possible to expand this system slightly to include the possibility of having three classes (fighter/wizard/rogue anyone? heh), however I thought that they might be at too great a disadvantage in power overall, so I decided to leave off that option for now. I can investigate the numbers on that option though, just to see how it works out.

EDIT: Also, you seem to be putting in a lot of restrictions. If you are going to the trouble of implementing a whole new rule, why not make it as flexible as possible? For example, what's wrong with Bar/Wiz? Wizards can't get angry?

I'm not thinking strictly mechanics here, but also flavour. A barbarian dual-classing as a wizard might have some validity, but a character simultaneously pursuing both the barbarian way of rage and the studious life of a wizard seems very incompatible to me. Since all training for these classes takes place during the youth of the character, I can't see a person being in a position to learn both the ways of the barbarian and the ways of the wizard in their youth. Changing from one to the other, sure, but not pursuing them at exactly the same time.

So, the restrictions, in general, are more for flavour... humans weren't able to multiclass in previous editions because of their short lifespans, so I carried that over to here and included half-orcs, but really, this system could be applied to any race, if you wanted. It's a flavour restriction rather than a mechanics restriction. Technically there was no reason why a human couldn't multiclass in previous editions, except for the thing that said "only demi humans can multiclass". heh.

the Jester said:
This seems like a real step backwards in a lot of ways to me.

Fair enough. That's kinda what I'm going for here, though, so mission accomplished for me. ;)

Bryon_Soulweaver said:
It seems off balance to me, although it is quite good.

Could you ellaborate on the "off balance" part? thanks. :)

Lord Wyrm said:
I like it, course I like anything updated but 2nd ed. Its unbalanced at low levels (just like 2nd) but gets weaker as time goes on due to the demands of the XP. Give the ability to take prestige classes but with more DM say so and relax the requirements for which classes can be combined and you'll have my vote.

How about only one class each of any of these four groups restricted by race:

Warrior: Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger, Paladin (provided first level feat is Knightly Training or whatever its called)

Rogue: Bard, Rogue

Mage: Sorceror, Wizard

Priest: Cleric, Druid, Monk (provided first level feat is Monastic Training)

Well, I do like the addition of the four groups of classes, and only being able to pick one out of each. It spells it out a bit clearer. I will stand by my decision to exclude paladins and monks from my multiclassing. Under the current rules, if they raise the level of any other class, they may not ever raise their paladin or monk level again. I think that's enough of a restriction to say that they're incompatible with this form of multiclassing. That just makes logical sense to me. I don't know these "Knightly Training" or "Monastic Training" feats. I'm only counting in the core rules at this point. Thus, paladins and monks can only be dual-classed.

The bookkeeping for prestige classes would become rather complicated for my multiclassing unless I turned them back into a gestalt character (with only one xp total rather than two) and applied some xp penalty or level adjustment, but I've already gone through those two options and they were a little unsatisfying. If you're dividing xp in half between the two classes, and then take on a prestige class, you would proceed as a single-classed character in the PrC, but you would likely have to record a separate xp total, and would have to switch back and forth between where you put your xp if you decided to switch back to raising your multiclass. That gets a bit cumbersome. I think the multiclass has enough on their mind anyways, and enough strength overall, so to me prestige classes are for those who dual-class. Consider it a balancing factor.
 

Lord Wyrm

First Post
Fair enough about the prestige classes. The two feats I mentioned are from Eberron and allow a Monk or Paladin to ignore their inability to multiclass in respect to one other class. So you could have Monastic Training (Rogue) and be able to advance as a rogue and later go back and level up monk, or in this case both simultaneously, of course in this case said feat would have to be your first level feat.
 

Veritas

First Post
Lord Wyrm said:
The two feats I mentioned are from Eberron and allow a Monk or Paladin to ignore their inability to multiclass in respect to one other class.

Ah, that would explain it. I haven't read much on Eberron, so I'm not familiar with the contents of the setting book.

Hmm... well, I suppose if they took one of those feats it would be okay to multiclass in those, but I'm not really sure. I sort of like the fact that they are very singular paths and there's really nothing that can be done about that. It takes commitment to be a paladin or monk and the restriction on multiclassing fits well for that, feat or no feat. ;)
I could certainly include that as an optional rule, though. *nods*
 

scottin

First Post
In general, I like it. Just a few things that I maight do differently.

Veritas said:
The multiclassed character starts off with the following stats:

- the hit die of the stronger of the two classes only.
- the Base Attack Bonus of the stronger of the two classes only.
- the save bonuses from the most advantageous class only.
- the weapon and armor proficiencies of the most advantageous class only.
- the skill points of the most advantageous class only (plus any racial bonus skill points) x4
- class skills from both classes.
- one starting feat, as a 1st level character.
- any racial bonus feats (if applicable).
- all class traits from both classes

For example, a half-elf who chooses to multiclass as a fighter/wizard would have a d10 for hit points, the BAB of the fighter, the Fort save of the fighter, the Will save of the wizard (and either Ref save, since they're the same), the skill points from either, since they have the same, his starting feat, and his fighter bonus feat. First level wizard spells, and all weapon and armor proficiencies of the fighter.

I would be more inclined to average the two classes. Doing it this way makes it almost seem too powerful. Basicly the 'best of both worlds'. Upon advancing a level, the stat might have to be completely recalculated instead of a simple increase. But it seems a little fairer. This way you take the good and the bad of both classes.


Veritas said:
Optional rule: For arcane spellcaster combinations, the character may give up Armor Proficiency (heavy) and Armor Proficiency (Medium) at 1st level for a 5% reduction in arcane spell failure chance each. They do not have to give up both, but if they give up one, it must be Armor Proficiency (heavy). The reduction counts only for armors the character is proficient in. Wearing any armor they are not proficient in has the entire arcane spell failure chance applied to their casting (in addition to all other penalties for wearing non-proficient armor). If the character possesses only Armor Proficiency (Light) and Armor Proficiency (Medium), they can only give up Armor Proficiency (Medium) to receive the 5% reduction. The character may re-gain the proficiencies they sacrifice later, by selecting them to fill a feat slot, however, they cannot take the feats and then give them up for more of a reduction. This is a one-time only option at 1st level and you can only give up armor feats gained directly from your class for this reduction. Thus, our fighter/wizard can give up both these proficiencies for a total of 10% reduction to arcane spell failure for any light armor he wears, and this 10% reduction will apply to medium armor if he selects Armor Proficiency (Medium) as his 3rd level feat, and it will apply to heavy armors if he selects Armor Proficiency (Heavy) as his 6th level feat. If he chose to only give up Armor Proficiency (Heavy) at the start, he would have a 5% reduction to medium and light armors, and it would apply to heavy armors as well if he took that feat at a later time. The armor proficiencies given up count as fighter bonus feats.

I am not real wild about this variation but I can't exactly tell you why. :heh: I think I would be more inclined to let the char trade the Armore prof. for a weapon prof. or other combat feat. I'll have to think about it some more.


Veritas said:
Now, this system works best using either the individual xp rules from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook or the Level-independent XP awards variant system in the Unearthed Arcana. The FRCS system awards greater xp for lower level characters in the group, and by this, the multiclassed character should receive xp as a character of the level of one of their classes (11th/11th level character in a group of 13th level characters would receive xp as if they were 11th level, while the others would receive the amount for 13th level for the same encounter). The level-independent system changes the xp system to something more like previous editions, which meshes very well with this system of multiclassing. Both systems keep the multiclassed character one level behind single-classed at low levels, two levels behind at mid-to-high levels and two to three levels behind at high levels, which is just about at the right power levels to match the other members of the group in ability.

I like the 'lower level characters get larger %XP' rule. However, in your example you gave the larger percentage of XP to the 22nd level char. Unless I am thinking about it incorrectly a 11/11 char is 22nd level just as it would be if the char had dual-classed. I am not sure completely, now that I try to think it thru, so I could probably be talked out of it. :D

I really like the idea tho. I alwasy preferred the 2e rules better that the 3e/3.5e version of multi-classing.
 


Remove ads

Top