An Open Letter to Fantasy Flight and Cubicle 7 -- Cut the "Foreplay" and Give Us the Good Stuff

[Vigilance]

Another thought, as I'm looking at the FFG page for the game, I think one problem with the game as presented at this stage is the price point: I might be able to get behind a product that has what Edge of the Empire has for $20 or even $30, but it's hard for me to justify paying $60 for it, with the knowledge that I'm expected to lay out another $120 before I ever get the toolbox that I need to do what I want. I think this was part of the original poster's complaint as well.

But on Neonchameleon's last point: Here again, it's the question of what you want the game to enable me to do. If I want to send a YT cruiser against a Star Destroyer, it won't be able to go head to head with it, but are there rules to tell me how it could outmaneuver it? Can you do the "Escape the Death Star" scene where Han and Luke shoot the Tie-figters out of the sky? I think you should be able to.

The book is full color, and 448 pages, hardcover.

Also, the starship combat rules are good, and you could indeed play the scene where the Falcon fights tie-fighters.

It has some ground vehicles, some snub fighters, some freighters, and some smaller capital ships. It does not have advanced military gear.

It also has rules for modding gear, cybernetics, the force, a gazetteer of the Star Wars galaxy and an adventure.

I think $60 dollars is a fair price for that myself.

 

[Crothian]

All the characters in Star Wars are human, except for the Wookie and the Droids.

We must be are using two different definitions of character. I think you don't mean character, you mean main character. I'm using character to mean any character on screen from the Sandpeople, to jawas, to things in the bar, including all the stormtroopers, and rebels, and Luke and Han.

I'm not wanting everything in one book. People have put forth the idea that this game allows one to do A New Hope which it most certainly does not. Reading the book the game wants to take place before New Hope. It wants to do stories out of The Han Solo Adventures (good book to base things on). In doing so I think they made some mistakes in their choices and how they are doing things.

 

[Scars Unseen]

Another thought, as I'm looking at the FFG page for the game, I think one problem with the game as presented at this stage is the price point: I might be able to get behind a product that has what Edge of the Empire has for $20 or even $30, but it's hard for me to justify paying $60 for it, with the knowledge that I'm expected to lay out another $120 before I ever get the toolbox that I need to do what I want. I think this was part of the original poster's complaint as well.

But on Neonchameleon's last point: Here again, it's the question of what you want the game to enable me to do. If I want to send a YT cruiser against a Star Destroyer, it won't be able to go head to head with it, but are there rules to tell me how it could outmaneuver it? Can you do the "Escape the Death Star" scene where Han and Luke shoot the Tie-figters out of the sky? I think you should be able to.

Well, since TIE Fighters and the YT-1300fp are both in the book, I'd say yeah(though the stock YT-1300 doesn't have quad-cannons; that was one of the Falcon's modifications). As for the price, I think you'd have to hold the book in hand to understand. This thing is 443 pages of pure gorgeousness. By far the highest quality production I've seen go into a book in a long time. Maybe production values don't matter to everyone, but this thing was built to attract.

 

[Remus Lupin]

I'll just note that I for one haven't used any phrase like "dirty marketing scheme" to describe my attitude toward the game at any point. I've simply said that, the way that it's being marketed has yet to convince me that it's worth my time and money. I fully accept that others may differ with me on this. Once more, I'm not asking, at this point, for every alien ever (I think I said that explicitly), but for a reasonable sampling. If your definition of reasonable sampling is different from mine, so be it. Similarly, if you feel that $60 is a reasonable pricepoint, once more, so be it. Clearly FFG is a well run company and I'm sure their market research is solid, so I have no doubt that many others will agree with you. But again, I'm not really talking about $60, I'm talking about $180 to get all three of the books. Granted, over time I probably paid considerably more than that for all of the WotC supplements. But, apart from one or two that I picked up for the sake of completeness, each of them gave me something *in addition to the core experience* that I genuinely wanted. My gripe is that I feel like I'm being asked to pay $180 for the core, not for an array of supplements that I could take or leave.

To be clear: I'm not saying any of this is "a dirty marketing scheme," I'm simply saying that it does not fulfill my criteria of diminishing marginal utility.

 

[Vigilance]

We must be are using two different definitions of character. I think you don't mean character, you mean main character. I'm using character to mean any character on screen from the Sandpeople, to jawas, to things in the bar, including all the stormtroopers, and rebels, and Luke and Han.

I'm not wanting everything in one book. People have put forth the idea that this game allows one to do A New Hope which it most certainly does not. Reading the book the game wants to take place before New Hope. It wants to do stories out of The Han Solo Adventures (good book to base things on). In doing so I think they made some mistakes in their choices and how they are doing things.

You did not read it closely then. It specifically says it takes place after Star Wars, but right after.

And I am using Main Character, yes.

There is only so much you can put in a book. There are some places where the game master has to step in and add minor things, like a playable Jawa race.

I think you have very unreasonable expectations for this book. You say you don't want everything- just Star Destroyer, Death Star (for starship combat no less), X-Wings, Sand People, Jawas, indeed every race glimpsed on Tatooine, so one would assume all the races in the Cantina, and full Jedi rules that would handle Obi-Wan in his prime.

And yes, the game does allow you to do A New Hope.

You can blast your way out of Mos Eisley, begin learning the ways of the Force, fight squads of Stormtroopers, fight a monster in a garbage masher, and fight tie fighters.

Running "A New Hope" does NOT MEAN full combat stats for the Death Star, or playable stats for every race glimpsed in the background of the movie.

 

[Remus Lupin]

Well, since TIE Fighters and the YT-1300fp are both in the book, I'd say yeah(though the stock YT-1300 doesn't have quad-cannons; that was one of the Falcon's modifications). As for the price, I think you'd have to hold the book in hand to understand. This thing is 443 pages of pure gorgeousness. By far the highest quality production I've seen go into a book in a long time. Maybe production values don't matter to everyone, but this thing was built to attract.

The artwork does look genuinely gorgeous, and so perhaps I'll have to pay a visit to my FLGS to check it out in person. But since my usual vehicle for buying RPG stuff these days is online, the physical experience of the book itself is generally the last thing that qualifies as a selling point for me. That's what I get after I've already went ahead an bought it.

 

[Vigilance]

I'll just note that I for one haven't used any phrase like "dirty marketing scheme" to describe my attitude toward the game at any point. I've simply said that, the way that it's being marketed has yet to convince me that it's worth my time and money. I fully accept that others may differ with me on this. Once more, I'm not asking, at this point, for every alien ever (I think I said that explicitly), but for a reasonable sampling. If your definition of reasonable sampling is different from mine, so be it. Similarly, if you feel that $60 is a reasonable pricepoint, once more, so be it. Clearly FFG is a well run company and I'm sure their market research is solid, so I have no doubt that many others will agree with you. But again, I'm not really talking about $60, I'm talking about $180 to get all three of the books. Granted, over time I probably paid considerably more than that for all of the WotC supplements. But, apart from one or two that I picked up for the sake of completeness, each of them gave me something *in addition to the core experience* that I genuinely wanted. My gripe is that I feel like I'm being asked to pay $180 for the core, not for an array of supplements that I could take or leave.

To be clear: I'm not saying any of this is "a dirty marketing scheme," I'm simply saying that it does not fulfill my criteria of diminishing marginal utility.

Getting everything for D&D 3e would indeed cost quite a bit more.

If you are dedicated to get everything, RPGs are always expensive.

When I look at the price, if I buy all three books, that means I am still running the game 3 years from now. That's $5 a month. Where else could I get this much entertainment for that price?

 

[Remus Lupin]

I think it makes sense to treat the Death Star as a location, not a ship, but you'd still need X-Wings to do that Death Star scene (at a minimum, I'm not really committed to the idea that you need Y-wings or others at this point though).

 

[Remus Lupin]

Getting everything for D&D 3e would indeed cost quite a bit more.

If you are dedicated to get everything, RPGs are always expensive.

When I look at the price, if I buy all three books, that means I am still running the game 3 years from now. That's $5 a month. Where else could I get this much entertainment for that price?

Well, I'm trying to compare Star Wars systems to one another as apples to apples, but your point still stands. Though again, my problem isn't with the price per se, its with the difference in price between what I view as being a sort of "core" general toolbox and interesting but not necessary supplements. If it was $30 for the WotC Saga core book, then everything else beyond that was gravy, though granted it was gravy that I lapped up with great eagerness.

 

[Vigilance]

I think it makes sense to treat the Death Star as a location, not a ship, but you'd still need X-Wings to do that Death Star scene (at a minimum, I'm not really committed to the idea that you need Y-wings or others at this point though).

Yes- and the X-Wing is the one thing that is not in the book that I think really should be there. My guess is their thought is that it's advanced military gear of the rebellion and PCs who are smugglers wouldn't have it.

For the record- my campaign is nothing like A New Hope and the game is rolling fine. The PCs are on an out of the way planet that has been occupied by the Empire. Over the first adventure they were pushed until they struck back, ran a guerilla campaign for awhile, and when it got too hot, they stole a ship and fled the world, looking for outside aid.