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[Wayside]

Nothing Spike did or said in the last season implied to me that he went to Africa to do anything but get a soul. You can say he was lying to Buffy if you want, but there was nothing in the storyline to suggest that.

Hence the problem. Season 6 ended one way, season 7 started in another, completely different one. I don't think it's a case of Spike lying, I think it's a case of the writers screwing up. One more case for the case file of such things.

 

[John Crichton]

Nothing Spike did or said in the last season implied to me that he went to Africa to do anything but get a soul. You can say he was lying to Buffy if you want, but there was nothing in the storyline to suggest that. By that rationale, I could say he went to Africa to buy a nice bouquet of African flowers from that demon guy to give to Buffy, which she also would have deserved.

I think Joss put one over on you all big time. I know I was surprised at the end of the 6th season finale, but not so much "WTF?!?!?!?" as "A-ha!".

Of course he didn't tell any of it to Buffy. As for Joss pulling one over on me, it is quite possible, but if one were to ask him I guarantee he would say that it is the beauty of the show that there can be multiple interpretations of what happened. I am completely fine with the opposite viewing opinion of my own as everyone is quite free to enjoy the show as they please. I think there was a sadness in Spike over the last full season and the reason he wasn't connecting with Buffy right away. He was full of remorse and guilt over what he did. And for whatever reason he was rewarded for it. Just because he said he went to gain a soul does not make it so, nor was that the implication at the time. Love makes people do stupid things and Spike is a very emotional creature as we have been shown. Perhaps there will be some subtle things that I will pick up reguarding the events in question upon another viewing but for now, I'm sticking with my guns.

 

[Umbran]

Hence the problem. Season 6 ended one way, season 7 started in another, completely different one. I don't think it's a case of Spike lying, I think it's a case of the writers screwing up. One more case for the case file of such things.

I don't htink it was Spike lying, or of the writers screwing up. I don't think it was Season 6 ending one way, and season 7 starting another.

I think Season 6 ended ambiguously. While you can choose to read it one way or another, it is not at all clear cut. I expect that's intentional - while Joss usually doesn't do full-fledged cliffhangers, you're supposed to spend the summer wondering what the heck is up with Spike, and what he was trying to do.

 

[Viking Bastard]

...and then Joss pulls something on us that's intended specifially to surprise everyone.

We call it a 'Josser'.

 

[Wayside]

I don't htink it was Spike lying, or of the writers screwing up. I don't think it was Season 6 ending one way, and season 7 starting another.

I think Season 6 ended ambiguously. While you can choose to read it one way or another, it is not at all clear cut. I expect that's intentional - while Joss usually doesn't do full-fledged cliffhangers, you're supposed to spend the summer wondering what the heck is up with Spike, and what he was trying to do.

You can chose to read it as ambiguous, but it is not at all clear that it is .

Really though, the whole 'intentionally ambiguous' excuse only works when it is done well, which is not the case here. The end of 6 is not an example of ambiguity or simple misdirection, it flat out contradicts everything said in season 7. They were going to take the story in one direction; they changed their minds and took it in a different one. The end.

 

[AuroraGyps]

At first, I thought Spike was going to get the chip out too. When it turned out he got his soul back instead, I was ok with that too. Maybe, on his way to Africa, Spike changed his mind. How long does it take for a vampire to get to Africa anyways? Long enough to give a guy some time to think I'd guess.

 

[Viking Bastard]

More on Spike in Angel:
http://aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=15350

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If this is true, it's frickin' brilliant.

 

[Vocenoctum]

You can chose to read it as ambiguous, but it is not at all clear that it is .

Really though, the whole 'intentionally ambiguous' excuse only works when it is done well, which is not the case here. The end of 6 is not an example of ambiguity or simple misdirection, it flat out contradicts everything said in season 7. They were going to take the story in one direction; they changed their minds and took it in a different one. The end.

Spike never said he was going to get the chip removed.
Heck, why would he go on a Demon Quest to remove some chip from his head? Wouldn't some demon doctor/ mad scientist be a better idea?
It was a mystical quest from the start.

 

[Vocenoctum]

More on Spike in Angel:
http://aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=15350

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If this is true, it's frickin' brilliant.

It's not brilliant. It's not bad either, but really, it's not a lot of anything. We'll have to see how it plays out.

I will say it's much better than I had feared, after the last season of Buffy...

 

[Umbran]

Really though, the whole 'intentionally ambiguous' excuse only works when it is done well, which is not the case here. The end of 6 is not an example of ambiguity or simple misdirection, it flat out contradicts everything said in season 7. They were going to take the story in one direction; they changed their minds and took it in a different one. The end.

I fail to see the logic in this denial.

They can write good TV. They can make screw ups (like intending one thing, writing for it, and then changing to something contradictory). But it is impossible for them to use a ploy in a way that you feel is mediocre? I don't buy that. It's entirely possible for the writing team to pull the ambiguous ploy in a way that doesn't quite work for you.

Plus, I don't see any contradction. Spike doesn't say precisely what he's out to get at the end of season 6. He wants to get Buffy, "what she deserves". But, given that this is from a character who is in love, has just been hurt, and is basically a big sap at heart, this could mean just about anything. Maybe she deserves a good butt-kicking. Maybe she deserves a creature of her power that she can actually love. Where's the contradiction?