Anybody care for an alternative to World of Darkness?

[Morrus]

What I would prefer is something like D&D, except for urban fantasy. Lots of different character options and a variety of campaign settings. An OGL to promote community creations.

I would have to invent something like this from scratch. Is anybody else interested in something like that?

No need to invent it from scratch. d20 Modern’s Urban Arcana hardcover is what you’re looking for. Like D&D, has an OGL.

 

[VelvetViolet]

No need to invent it from scratch. d20 Modern’s Urban Arcana hardcover is what you’re looking for. Like D&D, has an OGL.

That and Opening the Dark, Night Shift, and others I don't know about.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I think Esoteric Enterprises would probably suit most of the needs here. It’s based largely on traditional D&D elements, so it’s pretty easy for most players to grasp.

 

[VelvetViolet]

There was The Everlasting and WitchCraft in the late 90s that tried to compete with World of Darkness, but they sputtered and died. I find that really frustrating since they made a number of genuine innovations over the WoD formula, like writing a unified setting and using the same guidelines for superpowers across characters.

Urban Shadows, Liminal, Undying, Feed, Monsterhearts, Monster of the Week, and other more recent games have popped up in the last decade, but I’ve noticed a consistent complaint is that they lack the sheer breadth of lore that World of Darkness has. (I think that’s an unfair comparison since WoD was written over decades by big teams, whereas indies games aren’t.)

We could talk forever about different rules systems, but I think the most important thing a WoD alternative could do is write millions of words of lore for lore junkies to obsess over. Apparently a large chunk of WoD fans only buy the books to read the lore.

Does anybody want to talk about lore?

 

[hawkeyefan]

We could talk forever about different rules systems, but I think the most important thing a WoD alternative could do is write millions of words of lore for lore junkies to obsess over. Apparently a large chunk of WoD fans only buy the books to read the lore.

Does anybody want to talk about lore?

Sure....which lore? I think you said earlier in the thread you weren't necessarily talking about a specific IP or established world....but I could be misremembering or mixing threads.

What lore do you think would be a viable alternative to WoD? Is there an existing setting that you think could compete, or do you think an entirely new setting is what's needed?

 

[VelvetViolet]

Sure....which lore? I think you said earlier in the thread you weren't necessarily talking about a specific IP or established world....but I could be misremembering or mixing threads.

What lore do you think would be a viable alternative to WoD? Is there an existing setting that you think could compete, or do you think an entirely new setting is what's needed?

The Everlasting and WitchCraft are the only games I can remember that tried to compete directly by writing extensive lore, but they died out. Because of copyright law, I only really have the option to write my own lore rather than co-opting someone else's.

I don't know if I said it before, but I like the idea of having multiple campaign settings with possible crossovers between them, similar to how Dungeons & Dragons has a bazillion campaign settings and All Flesh Must Be Eaten has multiple deadworlds.

So I could, for example, have two planets with some connections. One planet resembles modern Earth and has a paranormal underworld that exists in secret, which I will call Earth. The other planet resembles a medieval fantasy and has paranormal creatures operating openly, which I will call Midgard. There are nations where vampires and wizards rule openly over muggle commoners. Events that occur in one world might spill over into the other.

Maybe on Midgard there is a vendetta in the country of Yberwald between a vampire court called the Diet of Dragons and a wizard fraternity called the House of Magnus. The wizard Magnus has kidnapped and experimented on a number of vampires and extracted the secret of immortality from them, allowing him to create his own bloodline of vampiric soul-sucking wizards. So the vampire monarchs have declared war on Magnus. Some members of both organizations manage to emigrate to Earth from Midgard. This vendetta is part of the indoctrination of initiates who were born on Earth and remains even after centuries of drift from Midgard culture.

Wash, rinse, repeat ad nauseam and you have deep lore.

What do you think?

 

[hawkeyefan]

Okay, gotcha. I think it's certainly possible to offer an alternative to WoD and other urban fantasy games. I think the challenge is that WoD is established, and so it has a trove of already established lore on which to draw, and multiple games that all tie into the one setting. So they're well established, for sure, and have an existing fanbase and so on.

But....they started off with one book. I think any competition would likely have to do the same. Make one book with a solid foundation upon which you can build.....hint at a larger picture here and there, but mostly focus on what you want that one book to be. If that one book/setting is interesting enough, people will notice. And then you can expand from there.

So I think the key is to establish that foundation first....that entry to the setting....but leave room to expand into other interesting areas or related concepts.

The general concept you have of a modern world mirrored by a hidden, magical world is a solid start. To use what you've offered as an example, I would focus on establishing Midgard and its inhabitants and nations and factions and how they interact with the people of Earth....that would be the first step. That's the core you need to start with, the foundation you build upon.

Then, you can come up with another world that is connected to Earth and/or Midgard and then expand into that world. And then another, and so on, as needed and desired.

 

[VelvetViolet]

But....they started off with one book. I think any competition would likely have to do the same. Make one book with a solid foundation upon which you can build.....hint at a larger picture here and there, but mostly focus on what you want that one book to be. If that one book/setting is interesting enough, people will notice. And then you can expand from there.

That's a good point. I wonder why it didn't work out for The Everlasting and WitchCraft in the 90s, or why I can't seem to find any other authors that tried anything similar in the years since.

 

[VelvetViolet]

I just wanted to share something interesting. I looked up the defunct RPG Nephilim and learned that it had about twenty or so fraternities that could be adapted to a more generic usage. Here's the full list:

#	NAME	DESCRIPTION
0	Fool	Messianics and the “harmlessly” insane
I	Magician	Believers in spreading magical knowledge to humanity
II	High Priestess	Guardians of secret lore and artifacts
III	Empress	Manipulators, the powers behind thrones.
IV	Emperor	Seekers of wealth and temporal power
V	Hierophant	Objects of worship and cults
VI	Lovers	Hedonists, Epicures, and nostalgics, often lost in past lives
VII	Chariot	Technophiles, scientists, and lovers of the material
VIII	Strength	Hunters of elemental monsters and Devils
IX	Hermit	Ascetics who seek Illumination in solitude and self-denial
X	Wheel of Fortune	Diviners and occult information junkies
XI	Justice	Keepers of balance and Law among Nephilim
XII	Hanged Man	Nephilim who live as if unAwakened
XIII	Unnamed	The Arcanum of Selenim
XIV	Temperance	Healers, care takers and mediators
XV	Devil	Egoists, the dangerously insane who revel in Khaiba
XVI	Tower	Foes of secret societies, opponents of the Magician.
XVII	Star	UFO/alien buffs, experimenting with other types of Ka
XVIII	Moon	Nephilim who incarnate in animals
XIX	Sun	Nephilim obsessed with using and developing Solar Ka
XX	Judgement	Nihilists, cynics, and doomsayers; sometimes prophets
XXI	World	The Arcanum of the Agarthans

Most can be adapted relatively unchanged, while others are tied to the cosmology of Nephilim and would need to be dramatically altered. But otherwise they cover a lot of the recurring concepts for organizations in urban fantasy settings.

 

[Fenris-77]

You could take that and use it write a very cool in-game fortune telling mechanic using the tarot deck. The game would have to be more on the side of play to find out, but it would be an awesome way to set things in motion and foreshadow events.