Anybody tired of god-o-centric d&d worlds

[Klaus]

The Silver Flame is pretty tangible, I thought. Can't you go see it in Thrane?

The Silver Flame itself is far older than the Church (or the silvery fire in Flamekeep), as the orc tribe in the Demon Wastes can attest to. The flame in Flamekeep is a physical manifestation of the merging of Tira Minon, the couatl and the rajah they're keeping bound.

But it's not THE Silver Flame with which the faithful join after death (commoners don't go and say "yeah, I worship THAT").

 

[Sadrik]

Ok, Eberon then:
If they get their powers from saturn-like rings:
Why do clerics still worship things and fill that divine niche?
Why do they have auras of good and evil etc?
Why can they turn undead?
Why do they have holy symbols?
Why do they have a diety favored weapon?

How is this stuff handled? It sounds a rather complex way of getting the clerics to fit in, I mean rings around the planet? come on.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Anybody tired of god-o-centric d&d worlds. I got the idea for this from another post.

Does every fantasy world have to be run by dieties?

Have you ever tried SAGA Dragonlance?

 

[Sadrik]

Have you ever tried SAGA Dragonlance?

No.

 

[Klaus]

Why do clerics still worship things and fill that divine niche?
Because the human (or demihuman) mind still needs to cling to the notion that they aren't alone, that some higher power is protecting them, or that life itself has a purpose. Just like in the real world.

Why do they have auras of good and evil etc?
A god-less cleric has an aura based on their alignment (i.e. their conviction). A god-ful ( ) cleric has an aura based on his religion (so a LE cleric of the Silver Flame has a LG aura).

Why can they turn undead?
Because they're very good at wielding positive or negative energy, due to their religion's training (even god-less clerics must have faith in SOMETHING, like an ideal, and have trained to be clerics).

Why do they have holy symbols?
Because they need a focus for their faith, an anchor of sorts. In the case of god-less clerics, it can be any item that has a personal significance to him.

Why do they have a diety favored weapon?
Because the religion says so. No one knows if the god really exists, and if he do, if he wields such a weapon. The Silver Flame, for instance, is not an anthropomorphic deity, but still has the longbow as a favored weapon (representing the light rays of the Flame). Keith Baker will be writing a Dragonshard on god-less clerics and what weapons they favor.

The Ring of Syberys isn't just a bunch of rocks. It's the remnants of Syberys, one of the progenitor-wyrms that gave birth to the world itself. The ring is made up of dragonshards, magical stones that can be used to make several special items. And it is theorized that the Ring of Syberys isn't just the source of these cleric's magic, but of ALL magic, arcane or divine.

 

[Sadrik]

Why do clerics still worship things and fill that divine niche?
Because the human (or demihuman) mind still needs to cling to the notion that they aren't alone, that some higher power is protecting them, or that life itself has a purpose. Just like in the real world.

This isnt really what my question is. If the rings generate magic. Why dont clerics then just become a different brand of wizard? Why are they still attributed to people worshiping things. Because they heal? Why couldnt wizards be attributed to worship? Do you see what I am getting at? Yes, it is human (and I suppose all the other races in eberon too) to worship deities. That is what you just answered. My question is why do clerics fill the niche created by that human nature mechanically. Maybe there is not reason it just is...

This question strikes at the heart of what I am saying with this thread.

Here is what I was thinking for a non-god-o-centric d&d game. Would this work for eberon?

I dont think the cleric is a very fullfilling class if it isnt linked to a god or at minimum to a pantheon of gods. That is why I think it would be good to get rid of them rather than alter or tweek them. Wouldnt it be simple enough to say, "Wizards and sorcerers can use any spell, just find the lowest level if it is on multiple lists."

It takes care of the system requirments of cheep/free easily accessed healing spells. However, it does weaken the casters overall. Because they will have to memorize or select their known spells as healing spells giving them less offensive punch. Hmm, maybe that is a good thing.

Now to balance the wizard schools some types of magic might be too powerful. For instance all of the healing spells are conjuration, they should be moved somewhere else to balance them. It never sat well with me that they were conjuration in the first place. Inflict spells could be moved to necromancy? and cure spells could be moved to abjuration? That would sure give that school a much needed boost.

All of the other divine spells could probably be kept in there appropriate schools.

 

[Staffan]

This isnt really what my question is. If the rings generate magic. Why dont clerics then just become a different brand of wizard?

Because you need faith in something in order to tap into the Ring of Siberys. It doesn't have to be a god or organized religion, but it has to be something.

 

[CR2000]

I like the idea of heal feats increasing your abilities with the heal skill. Like an epic feat that will let you heal one point per skill point or one point per level with an 80 DC. If you can defeat all illusions with an 80 spot DC, why not this?

 

[Klaus]

Sadrik -> Ahhh, now I see your point.

Hmmm... I suppose you could use the Domain Wizards (from Unearthed Arcana) and create a Healing domain (among others), to diversify.

Of special interest is the fact that the word "Mage" comes from the "Magi", the priestly class from ancient (iirc) Persia.

 

[Odhanan]

What if somebody didn’t want to have divine spell casters in their game at all? What then?

You have a look at Arcana Unearthed/Evolved. There is no "arcane" and "divine" magic. Just "magic". Priests could be Magisters, Gree/Darkbonds, Akashics, whatever fits the character itself.