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Anyone else find it annoying to figure out skills for NPCs?

Aaron2

Explorer
Turjan said:
I find it interesting that, on one hand, you paint different rules for players and NPCs as "the evil", but, on the other hand, you promote doing exactly this
Hey. Only if you consider "ignore the rules" to be a rule. If so, please ignore it.

I think Mike Mearls meant exactly what many people in this thread suggested: a DM's Guide should provide DMs with guidelines how to build NPCs in a rules-consistent way that does not lose itself in superfluous detail. In D&D 3.x, you have to figure out yourself how to do this.
I can see where he's coming from with respect to publishing NPC stats. Then you have to be perfect (you even have to care when you pick which feat because of prereqs). Its a huge pain most DMs don't have to deal with. I think the general rule (1 skill per skill point at level+3) should be told to all newbie DMs. Its the same way that Blue Rose handles skills (you pick a number of "known" skills equal to your skill points and they have set values based on your level)


Aaron
 

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Zoatebix

Working on it
I love how you refined Henry's system, S'mon. I downloaded his (or maybe I cut and pasted his post into a document) and I fell in love with it all over again when I saw your version on the immortal's handbook website.
 

BiggusGeekus

That's Latin for "cool"
GlassJaw said:
No comments on my spreadsheet. :\

It's the shnizzle!

Suggestion: I had to use my brain to figure out what to plug in where. Some documentation next to the fields might be nice, or have the documentation on page 2 or something. Because you don't want me using my brain for anything other than opening up soda cans.
 

S'mon

Legend
Thanks Zoatebix. :)

This is why freedom to use others' copyright works is so cool - me copying & enhancing Henry's work benefits both Henry and a bunch of other folks...
 

GlassJaw

Hero
You posted it two hours ago, you big goober. No one's going to use it until they have to stat up a NPC. . . then it's going to be invaluable.

I demand instant gratification! :)

So you're telling me everyone doesn't take a break every once in a while at work and read EN World?

It's the shnizzle!

Sweeet! Thanks.

Suggestion: I had to use my brain to figure out what to plug in where. Some documentation next to the fields might be nice, or have the documentation on page 2 or something. Because you don't want me using my brain for anything other than opening up soda cans.

Well I had just made it for myself and then i saw this thread so I posted it "as-is". I didn't require documentation. ;) If I have some time, I'll add some text and repost.
 

azmodean

First Post
Brilliant S'mon <OT>So, what color is your dragon?</OT>
I'll definitely be using most, if not all of that system for my NPCs in the future.

The best part to me is assigning the values of "good" or "average" to attributes and skills. Attributes typically take me as much time to decide on as skills, and this is a system that simplifies both at once.
 
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el-remmen

Moderator Emeritus
For those who suggested even glossing over feats. . . I think that is even more dangerous than doing that for skills, because it is too east to forget stuff like Power Attack even when you have it written down (I have taken to bold/italics feats that come into play in combat on the NPC stat block so they stick out among all the other feats listed - since I have forgotten stuff like Power Attack and Dodge, etc. . so many times).

Anyway, figuring out feats is easy. . .
 


Henry

Autoexreginated
nemmerle said:
For those who suggested even glossing over feats. . . I think that is even more dangerous than doing that for skills, because it is too east to forget stuff like Power Attack even when you have it written down (I have taken to bold/italics feats that come into play in combat on the NPC stat block so they stick out among all the other feats listed - since I have forgotten stuff like Power Attack and Dodge, etc. . so many times).

Anyway, figuring out feats is easy. . .

Actually, I would prefer NOT to state them on non-major NPC's, because as I noted and S'mon quoted, "Feats hide a multitude of sins." Let's say that a player character is inches from death through no fault of his own (he fights valiantly, he's getting into tonight's game, etc.) and you just rolled a 19 with your NPC thug and the hit would put him into the red. Instead, the thug just used his POWER ATTACK for more than he could handle, and missed the hero with a blow that shatters some mearby scenery with its force! :)

Two games later, your bad guy of the night is rolling so poorly that the climax of the evening is a joke. The players are expecting Kurgan from Highlander, and you're giving them Mr. Magoo! What he needs is a little extra boost - in the form of a weapon focus, or a spring attack, or something else flashy. What if he needs more skill than what you've assumed? Skill Focus, and BAM! He's 3 points better!

What's the difference between this and outright fudging? Not a darned thing. But the fact is that d20 is blessed with so many feats, skills, prestige classes, magic items, and templates that whatever number you need in an NPC within reason is THERE to assign! Plus, if you need an explanation for an out-of-game player, just tell them that he had the feats needed for that extra 1 or 2 point "oomph" you just gave him. :) On a more stringent note, if an NPC needs an ability that you forgot to give him, quickly assigning those nebulous skill points or feats or levels to whatever he needed to have is as easy as writing down the name of his dog, or what his wife's birthday is. Unless you are either blatant about it, or assign values totally out of the pale (for instance, your blacksmith has a +15 to hit and does 1d100 damage per hit), then you can always figure out what stats to assign after the fact.

In other words, my blacksmith doesn't need a craft score or skill focus until the first time he swings the anvil, and my troll doesn't need a spot score and an alertness feat until the rogue is hiding. :)
 

Breakdaddy

First Post
I use etools to stat out all NPCs/Monsters. The ones I can do beforehand, I will do. The ones I need to do on the fly only take a few seconds in etools on my laptop, and I get a completely statted NPC down to the last skill point spent. I see your point and agree completely. If I werent using etools I would not tend to do the mind numbing calculations of skill point allocation for scads of NPCs. Back when I did things manually, I would only stat out basic combat abilities and major equipment the NPC carried. I would also write down a couple of skills the NPC excelled at and basically max those out to the exclusion of all others. This was simple and worked quite well for me.
 

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