D&D 5E Anyone else think the Bard concept is just silly?

[The Human Target]

How are they sillier than most of the other stuff in the game?

Music magic has way more real world precedent​ than Magic Missiles.

 

[Immoralkickass]

Bard is silly because D&D is silly. Running around doing stuff as normal with 1 hit point, yo-yo between unconscious and fighting at full power with any sort of healing, getting fully healed from even the most grievous mortal wounds after 8 hours of rest, high level characters able to sky dive without dying.... I'm sure you get the drift.

 

[Lanefan]

I see the bard as something like Thom Merrilin from the Wheel of Time series, honestly.

Yeah, this is probably the best example going these days...which doesn't say much for the class, as Thom always seems to be just one step behind the curve most of the time.

The lore/knowledge/oral-historian/charisma-based type bard I can really get behind. Problem is, that doesn't make them much use in the field beyond just being someone's hench; so the game's bolted on all these other abilities and in 5 tries* it still hasn't really worked well at all.

* - in my 1e-based game I've redesigned them from scratch 3 times (initially so they could start at 1st-level like everyone else) and none of those have worked that well either.

I'm getting more and more tempted to make them a non-adventuring class, kind of a different version of a sage, and leave it there. Which would be sad, as I still - perhaps naively - think there's a good class in there somewhere trying to claw its way out.

Lanefan

 

[Lanefan]

Bard is silly because D&D is silly. Running around doing stuff as normal with 1 hit point, yo-yo between unconscious and fighting at full power with any sort of healing, getting fully healed from even the most grievous mortal wounds after 8 hours of rest, high level characters able to sky dive without dying.... I'm sure you get the drift.

All true, until the DM houserules around such silliness...

Lanefan

 

[Immoralkickass]

All true, until the DM houserules around such silliness...

Lanefan

House rule is not a good argument. He could house rule a ban on bards if he want, and all the other things he think are silly.

 

[rgoodbb]

Grima Wormtongue, Star Lord, Loki, Paul Atreides from Dune.


But a few examples that could also be Bards. Yet none of them play an instrument.

They have their place in both folklore and in the hearts of many players and their versatility makes them one of the best classes to find that concept you were looking for

 

[Bitbrain]

I don't think the Bard Concept is silly (although they can certainly be played as such).
My thoughts on them is that if the DM is the storyteller to the players, then the Bard is the Storyteller of the players to the world in which they inhabit:

He's the old guy in the tavern telling the story of the adventures he shared with the King, Queen, and Archmage back when all four of them were commoners unaware that it would be their destiny to kill the Dragon.

She's the traveling minstrel who sings of the misadventures she had with the Pope long before he "found God".

 

[Warpiglet]

If your entire career relies on your knowing stuff, then it makes sense that you would learn some magic at some point, since magic is just knowledge. Skilled bards should have some magical ability.

Since you aren't spending your entire life in a tower with a bunch of scrolls, then it makes sense that you would pick up the basics of how to defend yourself with weapons. Bards should not be as bad at fighting as wizards are.

Since you aren't a professional warrior, and you don't have enough magic to really rely on it, then it makes sense that you would learn how to hide and avoid fights.

As a whole, the bard class makes plenty of sense, as it was presented in the AD&D 2E PHB - it's the class which learned a little bit of everything, and incidentally could play an instrument although that pretty much never mattered.

What the class has since devolved into is just a jumbled mess of pointless high-magic mumbo-jumbo that doesn't make any sense outside of the Forgotten Realms.

I sort of glossed over this but this is exactly my issue. They are too powerful in a sense as it relates to magic. They do not have to do much fighting or hiding and could nearly just stand back and cast! I would prefer more limitation in number of spells and or reduce the flashy whiz bang....

 

[Henry]

You may think the the lute-wielder is a bad representation of the bard, but the bard class is what it is because it is supposed to represent the lute-wielder. If nobody wanted to play Alan-a-Dale, then the bard class wouldn't exist.

Any description that suggests an inspirational speech (rather than an instrument) has been tacked on in an attempt to widen the appeal of the class, but in doing so, it detracts from the class's core identity. Much like the paladin, the bard is a very specific character concept, and it is disingenuous to treat it otherwise.

...Except that the bard didn't begin life in AD&D as some non-combatant minstrel, but as a high-level Fighter/Thief/Druid who could wipe a room of orcs by himself. In fact, even in AD&D there is Gygax's reference to their poeic ability inspiring ferocity.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing inferior about wanting a musical-instrument bard, but to say he's the most iconic representation and any other depiction is detrimental is incorrect, in my opinion.

 

[JeffB]

In theory, the idea of the Bard, as represented in history and literature makes it interesting.


In D&D though, the implentation has always been silly at best.