D&D 5E Anything new on release dates? (As of May 8)

[pickin_grinnin]

Is this company-bashing supposed to help a discussion of this topic, or is it just for general bile spewing?

You tend to use the word "bash" far too freely. Disliking or not fully trusting a company based on past and current behaviors is not "bashing," particularly when discussing whether or not to take a chance on buying into their system again. WotC made a lot of great decisions at various points in the past, but eventually made a series of questionable ones. Love 'me or hate 'em, they have lost the privilege of having most of the community automatically expect great things from them.

 

[pemerton]

You tend to use the word "bash" far too freely. Disliking or not fully trusting a company based on past and current behaviors is not "bashing,"

Why not? The rest of your post explains why you think the bashing is justified (and perhaps it is). But it doesn't really explain how it's not bashing. (Or do you think "bashing" = "unjustified criticism"? I wasn't making that connection myself.)

 

[Iosue]

Well, he was the guy who ensured that there was no book called the Player's Handbook for 4E Essentials - possibly the biggest WTF moment in that debacle (and I say that as a 4E fan!) - so maybe he was hoping to win the internal battle for a new product name...?

Why would there be a "Players Handbook" for Essentials? Unless your point is that the "Heroes of..." style was less than clear, in which case, I agree.

 

[Mistwell]

You tend to use the word "bash" far too freely. Disliking or not fully trusting a company based on past and current behaviors is not "bashing,"

If you look for reasons to tell people why you dislike a company, that is in fact bashing. I think it's a proper use of that slang.

And Shiroiken, who I said it to, agreed with me. So I am not even sure how you can rationally disagree in this instance.

There is a big difference between, "not fully trusting" and the stuff I call out as bashing. Nobody minds if you don't fully trust a company. But I think a lot of people mind the repetition of "why I dislike this company". Unless you're some sort of activist, people generally just walk away from companies they don't like, and they don't go out of their way to find reasons to constantly tell others why they dislike that company.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

Why would there be a "Players Handbook" for Essentials? Unless your point is that the "Heroes of..." style was less than clear, in which case, I agree.

That's precisely why.

 

[Shiroiken]

If you look for reasons to tell people why you dislike a company, that is in fact bashing. I think it's a proper use of that slang.

And Shiroiken, who I said it to, agreed with me. So I am not even sure how you can rationally disagree in this instance.

There is a big difference between, "not fully trusting" and the stuff I call out as bashing. Nobody minds if you don't fully trust a company. But I think a lot of people mind the repetition of "why I dislike this company". Unless you're some sort of activist, people generally just walk away from companies they don't like, and they don't go out of their way to find reasons to constantly tell others why they dislike that company.

While I have strong negative opinions of WotC, I love the product of Next. That's why I haven't walked away from them. Of course, I don't generally point out WotC failings, but my original point was on topic (I quoted someone talking about loss of sales).

Oh, and I was totally bashing (even if somewhat on topic)

 

[mach1.9pants]

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...date-for-D-amp-D-Next-Starter-Game-is-July-15

See this thread, starter set July 15th

 

[pickin_grinnin]

Why not? The rest of your post explains why you think the bashing is justified (and perhaps it is). But it doesn't really explain how it's not bashing. (Or do you think "bashing" = "unjustified criticism"? I wasn't making that connection myself.)

"Bashing" generally denotes very strong criticism, often unjustified.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

If you look for reasons to tell people why you dislike a company, that is in fact bashing. I think it's a proper use of that slang.

Not really.

It originally (and still does) mean to strike hard. There is generally a negative meaning to it, in the sense of unwarranted criticism. Wikipedia has a good definition of it, though that's not what I'm basing my statement on:

"Bashing is a harsh, gratuitous, prejudicial attack on a person, group, or subject."

Criticism of a company isn't "bashing." It's criticism. Bashing is unwarranted, unnecessarily harsh criticism, at least in most contemporary usage. I have a particular dislike of the use of the term because the Republicans tried to redefine it to mean "any criticism of Republicans" back during the Bush years.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

But I think a lot of people mind the repetition of "why I dislike this company". Unless you're some sort of activist, people generally just walk away from companies they don't like, and they don't go out of their way to find reasons to constantly tell others why they dislike that company.

The reason you get all the fussing about the edition wars and such is that so many people in the hobby got started with D&D, and have emotional ties to the product, generally tied to nostalgia.

In many cases, though, people are simply discussing how they view the economic realities related to the changes WotC have made and are making. Discussing the mistakes the company has made, and considering whether it is likely they can turn things around, doesn't even necessarily relate to an actual dislike of the company. It's just like discussing Apple's recent marketing strategies, or that of any other well-known company that is making a big change.

On a personal level, I hope that WotC puts out a good product and that it's successful. They have made some brilliant moves with other products in the past. They have made mistakes in the past decade or so, though, mostly relating to the D&D property. Time will tell whether they have figured out what they did wrong and how to avoid doing it in the future. Hopefully they are on a better path now.

If I were a betting man, though, I wouldn't put my money on them, at least at this point. Past performance with this particular property has been sub-optimal, at best, and the various interviews with the WotC employees that I have read or seen/heard have not been promising, particularly when it comes to their assessment of what their mistakes were with 4e, and how they would have done it differently if they knew then what they know now.

To use a more extreme analogy, I used to love shopping at Sears. Sears is a train-wreck of a company now, though, and I won't step into one of their stores. I wish they could pull it together and go back to being a place I love to shop, but I don't think that is going to happen, based on their history. It might happen, and that would be great if it did, but I wouldn't bet money on it. I don't actually dislike or hate the company - I'm just disappointed at what it has become.

In the case of WotC, I'm disappointed at how they have handled the D&D property since 3.5. I don't think they are a train wreck of a company, but I'm not convinced that they have come up with a good new overall strategy for that particular product. The whole point of discussion boards is to discuss things like that.