AOO and reach weapons

[Tom McCafferty]

Hi there

The situation I came across involved a PC human fighter with a long spear versus a minotaur with a huge great axe. Both have a reach of 10'.

Normally the fighter expects to get his AOO when any creature enters his threat range, so he holds action until after the minotaur comes within 10', but the minotaur has a reach weapon too. So it stands just over 10' away and tries to strike the spear with it huge axe. This acording to the rules provoke an attack of opertunity, but the minotaur is out of range of the spear.

The PC wants to have an AOO on the minotaur, but I argue its out of range and to do so the PC would have to take a 5' step first which would give the minotaur an AOO.

Who do you think is right here?

Tom

 

[Darklone]

Excuse me... noone gets an AoO when something enters his threat range (except for the Hold the Line feat and a charging opponent). You get one if someone moves within your threat range.

 

[Tom McCafferty]

Excuse me... noone gets an AoO when something enters his threat range (except for the Hold the Line feat and a charging opponent). You get one if someone moves within your threat range.

Does entering the threat range not constitute moving within a threat range?

The rule says "If you move within or out of a threatened area."

 

[Li Shenron]

Does entering the threat range not constitute moving within a threat range?

The rule says "If you move within or out of a threatened area."

Think of the threatened area as the sum of each square it is made of.

Entering one of these squares does NOT provoke AoO. Exiting from one of these squares DOES provoke AoO.

 

[Ottergame]

Hi there

The situation I came across involved a PC human fighter with a long spear versus a minotaur with a huge great axe. Both have a reach of 10'.

Normally the fighter expects to get his AOO when any creature enters his threat range, so he holds action until after the minotaur comes within 10', but the minotaur has a reach weapon too. So it stands just over 10' away and tries to strike the spear with it huge axe. This acording to the rules provoke an attack of opertunity, but the minotaur is out of range of the spear.

The PC wants to have an AOO on the minotaur, but I argue its out of range and to do so the PC would have to take a 5' step first which would give the minotaur an AOO.

Who do you think is right here?

Tom

Moving 5 feet would never provoke an AoO unless the mover is prone and crawling. The minotaur would have to come within 10 feet of the fighter to attack his spear. The spear might have a 10 foot range, but it's only actually "in" the square the fighter is in. So if the minotaur is in the 10 foot range, the fighters held action would go off, and he'd get his AoO for being sundered.

 

[Christian]

And now, back to the original question ... By the rules, the fighter can't take any action against an opponent outside of his threat range. It's been suggested that, in a sunder attempt, the opponents weapon must come into the character's threat range, so one ought to be able to use one's AoO in this case to try to sunder the opponent's weapon. (Doesn't help this guy, of course, since he can't try this with a piercing weapon.) Also, the fighter would have been wise to ready an attack rather than hold his action, as he can (per the FAQ) include a 5' step in his readied action (if he didn't move on his turn). Move up 5' and attack the minotaur when it hits 15', and then he will get an AoO if it tries a Sunder.

 

[dcollins]

Normally the fighter expects to get his AOO when any creature enters his threat range, so he holds action until after the minotaur comes within 10', but the minotaur has a reach weapon too. So it stands just over 10' away and tries to strike the spear with it huge axe. This acording to the rules provoke an attack of opertunity, but the minotaur is out of range of the spear.

I'm going to say that's not possible. It looks like there are 2 points of confusion here:

(1) The minotaur would not provoke an AOO for entering the first space of the fighter's threat range. Boiled down, the rule is just that exitting a threatened space provokes and that's it. See later WOTC PHBs and downloads for clarifying pictures.

(2) The minotaur cannot Strike-A-Weapon (Sunder) unless he actually threatens the fighter himself, according to the rules. There is no exception given in the core rules for being able to reach-the-other-guys-reach. The Sage created a special FAQ "maybe you could allow this" ruling if one Readies an Action to attack a weapon when someone tries to attack you, but that's it.

 

[Tom McCafferty]

Think of the threatened area as the sum of each square it is made of.

Entering one of these squares does NOT provoke AoO. Exiting from one of these squares DOES provoke AoO.

If the minotaur moves up next to the PC fighter it has to move from 10' to 5', is this not moving within the threatend area?

 

[dcollins]

If the minotaur moves up next to the PC fighter it has to move from 10' to 5', is this not moving within the threatend area?

It is -- and he has exitted the threatened square that he started out in (which is probably easier to think about). This would provoke an AOO (assuming it wasn't just a 5 ft. step, etc).

 

[Artoomis]

Moving 5 feet would never provoke an AoO...

To be more technically accurate, taking a 5-foot step never provokes an AoO. Sometimes 5 feet of movement is not a "5-foot step."