AOO and reach weapons

[Tom McCafferty]

To be more technically accurate, taking a 5-foot step never provokes an AoO. Sometimes 5 feet of movement is not a "5-foot step."

So if the longspear has a 10' reach and you move straight up to the character then you are classed as having passed from outside to the 10' square to and then to the 5' square then the PC can have an AOO, but if you move into the 10' square and take a 5' step into the 5' square the PC does not get an AOO. This seems stupid. Am I correct?

 

[Artoomis]

So if the longspear has a 10' reach and you move straight up to the character then you are classed as having passed from outside to the 10' square to and then to the 5' square then the PC can have an AOO, but if you move into the 10' square and take a 5' step into the 5' square the PC does not get an AOO. This seems stupid. Am I correct?

A 5-foot step can ONLY be taken as the total of all your movement in a round.

If you go up to 10' the first round, the, yes, in the second round you could take a 5-foot step to get inside the reach of the 10' weapon. Of course, in the meantime you will have taken a whole round of attacks from the 10-foot weapon-wielder, and, to make matters worse, he could than take a 5-foot step backward to prevent you from reaching him with a 5-foot step.

It all works out.

 

[Tom McCafferty]

A 5-foot step can ONLY be taken as the total of all your movement in a round.

If you go up to 10' the first round, the, yes, in the second round you could take a 5-foot step to get inside the reach of the 10' weapon. Of course, in the meantime you will have taken a whole round of attacks from the 10-foot weapon-wielder, and, to make matters worse, he could than take a 5-foot step backward to prevent you from reaching him with a 5-foot step.

It all works out.

This seems to be contrary to the advice from 'Darklone' who indicated they would get no AoO on entry to the threatened area. Which is correct?

 

[Ferox4]

This seems to be contrary to the advice from 'Darklone' who indicated they would get no AoO on entry to the threatened area. Which is correct?

They aren't getting AoO's - they are taking normal attacks w/ a 10' reach weapon.

Remember the golden rule: The 5 foot step is always your friend.

 

[Pax]

Tom: you don't get an AoO for someone ENTERING your threatened area. That's "moving into".

You get an AoO whensomeone moves from one PART of yoru threatened area, to another PART of your threatened area ("moving within"), or if they completely leave your threatened area ("moving out of").

If you and I have fighters with lognswords, and I move up adjacent to you on a Battle Mat - I have not moved withinor out of yoru threatened area, I have only moved into your threatened area.

If, instead, you had a Spiked Chain, and I moved to a space 10' away from you - on the mat, there would be one empty square between your miniature and mine - I am also not moving within or out of your threatened area. IF, as part of he same round, I KEEP moving to the space adjacent to you - that last square of movement was "within" your threatened area ... and you get an Attack of Opportunity.

However, if I stop 10' away, and on my next round, move ONLY 5' in order to get adjacent to you, that is a "5 foot step" ... because it is my only movement for the round. And a 5-foot-step just about never provokes an Attack of Opportunity.

Keep in mind: moving 5 feet as part of a larger movement or in addition to other movement during that round, is not "a five-foot step". To be a "5-foot step", that single square of movement must be all of yor movement for the entire round.

Does that make things any clearer?

 

[Artoomis]

This seems to be contrary to the advice from 'Darklone' who indicated they would get no AoO on entry to the threatened area. Which is correct?

Pax explained this, but I'll take a shot at it, too.

They are not contrary statements. Observe (keep in mind the reach weapon):

A = attacker with no reach weapon.
D = defender with 10' reach weapon.
_ = empty 5' square.


Round 1 starts out with A 30' away from D, close enough to reach him with one move action.:

A _ _ _ _ _ _ D _ _

A moves:

_ _ _ _ _A _ D _ _

and is now 10' from D, where A cannot attack D. He stops there so as not to draw an AoO from moving from 10' away (where he went into the threatened square) to 5' away (where he would have moved out of one threatened square and into another, provoking an AoO for moving out of the square that was 10' away.

D's turn . First he takes a full attack on A, who he can reach. The he takes his allowed 5-foot step.

_ _ _ _ _A _ _ D _

Next turn.

A is now 15' away, too far away for a 5-foot move.

Does this make sense now?

 

[Tom McCafferty]

Pax explained this, but I'll take a shot at it, too.

They are not contrary statements. Observe (keep in mind the reach weapon):

A = attacker with no reach weapon.
D = defender with 10' reach weapon.
_ = empty 5' square.


Round 1 starts out with A 30' away from D, close enough to reach him with one move action.:

A _ _ _ _ _ _ D _ _

A moves:

_ _ _ _ _A _ D _ _

and is now 10' from D, where A cannot attack D. He stops there so as not to draw an AoO from moving from 10' away (where he went into the threatened square) to 5' away (where he would have moved out of one threatened square and into another, provoking an AoO for moving out of the square that was 10' away.

D's turn . First he takes a full attack on A, who he can reach. The he takes his allowed 5-foot step.

_ _ _ _ _A _ _ D _

Next turn.

A is now 15' away, too far away for a 5-foot move.

Does this make sense now?

Thanks Pax

This is how I thought the situation would be resolved. I was confused with Darklone's statement that no-one gets an AoO for someone entering their threat zone. So my question still stands.

In the case of an attacker with a 10' reach (A) versus a defender (D)with a 10' reach the following would result in an AoO for D...

A______D__ -> ______AD__

then in this situation...

A______D__ -> _____A_D__

D would not get an AoO, but both A and D could have an attack each.

And in this situation...

A______D__ -> ____A__D__

D would not get an AoO and A would be able to try and hit D's weapon, with out D getting an AoO.

Is this correct?

 

[Pax]

The last one, about attacking weapons, is not correct. To attack a creature's equipment, you must be able to attack the creature.

Otherwise, though, you've got it.

 

[Artoomis]

The last one, about attacking weapons, is not correct. To attack a creature's equipment, you must be able to attack the creature.

Otherwise, though, you've got it.

There is a common exception to this (not the rules as written, though) where folks are allowed to react to attacks that come into their spaces, even with reach. Thus you could ready an attack to sunder a weapon used to attack you, for example, or to attack that creature using natural reach to hit you.

I'd apply that same logic to allowing AoOs outside of your reach for attacks that would normally draw them (like a sunder attempt with a reach weapon), but limit them to attacks on the weapon - you can't hit what you can't reach.

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

The last one, about attacking weapons, is not correct. To attack a creature's equipment, you must be able to attack the creature.

Otherwise, though, you've got it.

This is correct - though one additional note of clarification...

In your second situation, when A stops 10' away from D, D doesn't necessarily get an AoO if that's all A does.

However, should A raise any other opportunity for an attack, D can hit.

This becomes important with Combat Reflexes and/or Deft Opportunist and Karmic Strike.


On a secondary note, also consider that the minotaur, if not having moved too far (i.e. less than his base move) still has an action left and can ready an action to sunder the spear if the spear wielder strikes at him.

Golden Rule: 5' Step is your friend
Second Golden Rule: A readied action is an ally.