AoO questions...

[javapadawan]

A few questions regarding AoOs came up in our game recently...

If a bard is using his bardic music ability to countersong during combat, does he still threaten the 5' area around him? I was thinking he does if he is just singing and wielding a weapon, but what if he is playing an instrument? Does he still get to take an AoO on an opponent moving through his area?

In the same vein, does an unarmed PC still threaten the 5' area around him? If he does, and an opponent would move in such a way as to provoke an AoO, can he attempt to grapple?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Thanee]

You need to be able to do a melee attack into the 5' area surrounding you to threaten it.

A melee attack is defined in the glossary (orange pages in the back of the PHB) as just about any close combat attack form, including unarmed strikes.

So, you should be able to threaten an area unarmed, which would also allow the bard to threaten without a weapon. Of course he can only use the attack form with which he threatens the area.

When you make an AoO, you can do anything you could do with a normal attack, so yes, grapple is definitely allowed!

Note: Some (many) people play it the way, that a melee attack is an attack performed with a melee weapon, therefore unarmed strikes would not threaten an area.

I'm not sure, if there is any official wording on this and what it says.

Hope this helps.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Grayswandir]

I believe you can only make an unarmed strike as an attack of opportunity if you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. Monks of course gain use of this feat for free.

 

[Thanee]

With that feat your attacks are considered armed, so you do not provoke AoO yourself while attacking, but it does not change the above situation. Either an unarmed strike is a melee attack or not, armed or unarmed is not important here.

I know about the similarity between armed and melee, but they are still different things, rulewise!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Grayswandir]

Hmm. I had thought the general ruling was that you can't make an attack of opportunity with an attack that would normally draw an attack of opportunity, but looking in the book I can't find that rule. I do recall now that bows have a special rule claiming that you do not threaten the 5 ft around you with a bow, but I can't think of a similar rule for unarmed strikes.

Thus, I'll have to resort to some fine-detail reading. The Attacks of Opportunity section on page 122 of the PHB states "you threaten the area into which you can make a melee attack". Then Table 8-1 and the Attack section on pages 122-123 both distinguish between three types of attacks: melee attacks, ranged attacks, and unarmed attacks. Therefore I must conclude that an unarmed attack does not (normally) count as a melee (armed) attack and so you cannot threaten the 5 ft around you when unarmed.

The Unarmed Attacks section on page 140 goes on to explain that making an unarmed strike normally provokes an attack of opportunity from the creature you strike. The book then notes that monks, characters with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, spellcasters using a touch spell, and creatures attacking with natural weapons all count as "armed" when making unarmed strikes, and thus do not provoke attacks of opportunity from the creatures they attack. Furthermore, they can make attacks of opportunity with their unarmed strike against creatures who attempt unarmed strikes against them. The text does not there mention any ability or disability of such characters to make other (normal) attacks of opportunity.

So, all in all, I still contend that unarmed characters can make unarmed attacks of opportunity if and only if they possess the Improved Unarmed Strike feat or the use thereof (in the case of a Monk). But I acknowledge that the rules are not unambiguous in this case.

 

[graydoom]

[...] I do recall now that bows have a special rule claiming that you do not threaten the 5 ft around you with a bow [...]

Entirely untrue. There is no special rule about AoOs and bows. You do not threaten anything with a ranged weapon. Bows are ranged weapons. Therefore, you do not threaten anything with bows.

Unless, of course, you are actually trying to hit someone with the bow itself.... (heh)

This post is just to clear up that point. I'm not getting involved in the unarmed/armed/etc. debate because all it does is go around in circles and never comes to a good resolution.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

The sage has ruled that if you are unarmed and do not have the improved unarmed strike feat you do not threaten the area around you.

I have house ruled otherwise though because that ruling really opens up a can'o'worms.

--Colorful S p i k e y

 

[Grayswandir]

Entirely untrue. There is no special rule about AoOs and bows. You do not threaten anything with a ranged weapon. Bows are ranged weapons. Therefore, you do not threaten anything with bows.

That's what I meant. Sorry if I was unclear (incorrect, even). I wrote that first paragraph before I actually looked up the rules, then didn't realize that I mentioned in the minutiae the very rule I had just referred to.

 

[Grayswandir]

The sage has ruled that if you are unarmed and do not have the improved unarmed strike feat you do not threaten the area around you.

Ah, so that's where I remember it from. I thought I remembered the issue having been addressed specifically. Not that the Sage is infallible, of course.

 

[Grayswandir]

Hmm, I'm just jumping all over the place today, aren't I? Upon considering the implications of everything I've said here so far, and upon realizing that I seem to have contradicted myself several times, I have to go back and agree with Thanee. Armed and Melee attacks are indeed two different things, and according to the rules as written characters with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat or use thereof do not threaten the 5 ft around them and so may not make attacks of opportunity. And now I'll have to agree with Spikey and house rule otherwise. ::Shrug::