April 3rd, Rule of 3

[kevtar]

It is certainly cool if we disagree. But you just AGREED. "such a thing didn't exist in 1E".

This has been covered more than enough times in the past.
Not only is the point that HP represent more than physical damage accepted, it is greatly embraced by throngs of people who still loathe surges.

Go find a surge thread if you want to see that conversation.

I agreed with your premise, that surges did not exist in 1e, but not with your claim that surges do not hold up to inspection - that is subjective. I also added that while I'm not opposed to surges, I'm not "married" to them either. I believe non-magical healing has a place in the game, just in more meaningful ways than how they were handled in previous editions.

Short story: In my opinion, the core of the game should assume a type of non-magical healing, and that there should be options for that mechanic that fit into particular styles of play (either surges, short rests, extended rests or otherwise).

 

[BryonD]

I agreed with your premise, that surges did not exist in 1e, but not with your claim that surges do not hold up to inspection - that is subjective.

Well, "subjective" can get to the point that you can't have a meaningful conversation.
I think if you took a poll of 1,000 reasonable people, the idea that the pure underlying concept of surges is completely new to D&D as of 4E would win overwhelmingly. I think it is ultimately an objective observation that surges are conceptually new.

And, as much as I personally dislike them, I'd be clear that this specific point does NOTHING to cast dispersion on them. Being like or not like prior D&D tropes is not a part of the issue of quality.

I also added that while I'm not opposed to surges, I'm not "married" to them either. I believe non-magical healing has a place in the game, just in more meaningful ways than how they were handled in previous editions.

Short story: In my opinion, the core of the game should assume a type of non-magical healing, and that there should be options for that mechanic that fit into particular styles of play (either surges, short rests, extended rests or otherwise).

The gulf between 4e-style surges and extended rests is rather vast.

But I think a very important point is that WotC NEEDS to win back a great number of fans. A fully modular game that offers everything to everyone sounds awesome. It also sounds quite a bit like a pipe dream.

If we instead talk about the irrelevant comparison of your opinion against mine, then I just have a vastly different taste. But even on that point I think that the sweet spot of RPGs, the thing they do that nothing else does nearly as well, is the embracing of the narrative heart of roleplaying ("being in the story") and surges are ultimately antithetical to that end. They support tactical gaming. But there are other media (board games, mini war games, MMOs, etc) that offer competitive or even superior service to that experience. And I understand that there is a niche of tactical play lovers who still want that pure RPG experience. But there are not enough of those people. The heart of an RPG that is the market leading standard bearer of RPGs MUST be aligned with the heart of the things that makes RPGs unique amongst hobbies. If WotC can make an awesome game for me and also have surges be a plug in for you AND ALSO have the entire game work so that building around the option of that plug in NEVER has any draw against the game experience I have, then awesome. I don't know how easy it will be for them to build a game better than what I already have with no burden whatsoever. If they have to start building around options I'm going to actively avoid, the really terribly hard goes up an order of magnitude.

 

[YRUSirius]

I never really understood how Wands of CLW made it into the game...

What about freaking healing potions? Most iconic non-spell healing ever.

-YRUSirius

 

[Incenjucar]

I never really understood how Wands of CLW made it into the game...

What about freaking healing potions? Most iconic non-spell healing ever.

-YRUSirius

It gets a bit awkward when you have to use the restroom after every encounter because you're chugging potions like Gatorade at the super bowl.

 

[YRUSirius]

You mean you don't use those stone portal faces like those in Japan?

-YRUSirius

 

[Sunseeker]

It gets a bit awkward when you have to use the restroom after every encounter because you're chugging potions like Gatorade at the super bowl.

It'd be even more awkward if you lost the HP when you took a leak!

 

[Incenjucar]

It'd be even more awkward if you lost the HP when you took a leak!

Which really begs the question: Are HP water soluble or fat soluble?

 

[Sunseeker]

Which really begs the question: Are HP water soluble or fat soluble?

I'm betting on fat soluble. Those really skinny rogues and wizards always seem to be lacking it, while Dwarves and Hobbits have it in abundance.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

You mean you don't use those stone portal faces like those in Japan?

That works fine until you stumble on a cursed one.

 

[Andor]

I think that you're in a very small minority with that opinion.

Almost all D&D players that I know of have a strong preference for one particular system. Ie, they have a system that is the "best" by a substantial margin.

They all disagree about WHICH system is the best, of course .

But that is fundamentally the big challenge for 5thEd. It has to be the best for most D&D players. Most pathfinder players have to prefer it, most 4th edition players have to prefer it, most newcomers have to prefer it, etc.

I have no intention of compromising. If DndNext isn't better than Pathfinder in MY opinion then I won't switch so long as I have a choice.

The best version of D&D is the one you are playing. If 5e isn't the best song the world has ever heard, but it gets the band back together after they broke over healing surge related artistic differences, then it is the best after all.

6 friends rolling dice and cracking wise around a table is better than two sets of 3 at differetn tables, even if half if them miss Prestige Classes and the other half misses Paragon Paths.

5e doesn't have to be better than sliced bread, free gold and tiefling hookers all at once. It just has to be fun and not push Nerdrage buttons.

I personally see nothing to whinge about in this article.