Are high ECL races worth it?

[mmu1]

It depends on the race.

The FR Genasi, for example, are pathetic - their stat adjustments add up to zero, they have darkvision, minor resistance to one of the elements, a couple of skill bonuses, maybe a save bonus, and generally a spell-like ability of some kind, but nothing especially good. ECL+1? They're barely as good as some of the better PHB races, if that.

The Tiefling and the Aasimar , also +1 ECL, are actually a much better deal - the Aasimar, with +2 WIS +2 CHA might actually be worth it for a cleric... maybe. They're at least worth consideration if you're starting off in a higher-level game.

The Drow? Hah. -2 CON and two hit dice behind everyone else? Completely hopeless outside of a high-level game - on the other hand, if you are starting a level 10 game, spell resistance 19 might actually be quite nice, and worth the level hit. Even if you play a wizard, but have a good score to spare for CON, take a toad familiar (or just get a CON boosting item) and Spellcasting Prodigy, you'll actually be pretty well off.

Things start to get different once you actually get into the multiple hit-die monster races. Ogres are, what, ECL +5? A 1st level Ogre fighter will wipe the floor with pretty much any PHB 6th level fighter with equivalent stats without breaking a sweat. He'll also be dumb as a brick and about as charismatic, but he's definitely viable in terms of game mechanics...

Basically, the problem area are the races like drow, druegar, and other single hit-die creatures that have so many bonus abilities they clearly can't be ECL+0 or +1, but they're so fragile the +2 or +3 ECL adjustment isn't really worth it.

 

[Quickbeam]

Several of us in my group take turns DMing, and we decided it would be a good idea to have one or two PCs in the current campaign be template race characters for our own playtesting. I played a half-dragon paladin, and another guy played a drow druid. I think the ECL does a good job of balancing the racial benefits provided by the templates, but I wouldn't make many PC's of this type just because of the slow level progression. Like some of the previous posters have noted, the template races are great for flavor and variety, but I wouldn't use them too often.

 

[Psion]

Zerovoid wrote:
The drow's SR of 11 + class level is pretty good, but remember that they are two levels behind. They get a net +4 to stats, which can be really good, especially with point buy, but is it worth two levels?

Probably. A little weak for a +2, actually, but a little strong for a +1.

ECLs are not really designed around the situations in which they will not work well (e.g. for drow at lower level), but the situations in which they will work well. No matter what level the drow is, the drow will have a huge boon against magic. At high levels, the lost HD are not such a big deal.

 

[Captain America]

Well...

At the lower levels, a brute type, like an Ogre, Minotaur, or even a Gnoll, is quite a powerhouse. The ECL balances them out well.

At high levels, the brutes fall behind way too fats, unless Large sized.

For Drow, and other trickytypes, they're like wizards: Terribly weak at low levels, but at high levels, they really shine.

The key is, how well balanced do they wind up in the sweet spot levels of 4-6? Get that one figured out, and you'll be golden.

-- Cap!

 

[Zerovoid]

So far I've shied away from ECL races altogether, although one guy in my gaming group dies almost every session, and is always brining in a PC with some wierd template or prestige class.

What I'm wondering is: are these races ever good, or even equal? At low levels, missing HD means you are short hit points, BAB, and base saves. At high levels, spell like abilities that seemed good at low levels, like the Genasai's abilities, are almost worthless. SR stays good, but stat adjustments can easily be duplicated with relatively cheap magic items, so it seems like you might never gain anything by picking one of these races, if they are weak at low and high levels.

In my games, I've thought about saying that characters can use NPC levels to replace the level adjustment. The idea would be that while the Warrior is pretty weak compared to a fighter, maybe a Warrior level that comes with Darkness 1/day and some resistances isn't weak, and is closer to balanced.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

The ECL usually make it more of a ro;e playing consideration than powergaming one, and I really like that.

Giving them some extra HP wouldn't hurt either though. And I don't think letting their skills cap at there "effective" level would be such a bad idea either.

-- +666 ECL Spikey

 

[Largomad]

Actually i agree with the idea of ECL+x for races with innate abilities. Altough its harder to play with them at low levels, in the middle of long run its worth.

Actually in my campaign i have a player playing a drow, and after a hard beginning actually she's faring pretty well at her 5 lvl.

Just my two cents.

 

[The Forsaken One]

Shades

Hmm what does everyone think about shades being +5....
I think +2 was a lark and +3 abit strong.. +4 ok but +5 seems rediculous... AT high levels they just rock.

 

[Kichwas]

It depends.

I'm not sure on the WotC made ones but on the FFG Mythic Races ones they are all way underpowered for their ECL.

Anything beyond ECL +1 in there is a near unsurvivable PC.

I would say in general that when you hit ECL +3 or more you're going to be a noted disadvantage in the game due to the hit point issue if nothing else. Unless one of the things that gives you that ECL is something that means you will rarely take hit point damage.

 

[Altalazar]

Races not often worth it

I agree. Most high ECL races are way underpowered.

For my game, for each level of ECL, there IS a hit die. I had one player do a gnoll with a +1ECL, and I gave them one gnoll hit die to start with.

I also started at first level. The way this worked out was that it just took til 3000 exp for the gnoll to reach 2nd level (and of course everyone else was 3rd level then). Sure, the gnoll was ahead of everyone until that point, but then it evened out, and now in many ways the gnoll is behind.

In almost all ways, player character power is set by level.