Are Milestones fun?

[Alisair Longreach]

Tell me how the Milestones rules makes your 4E games more fun and exciting.

Please, someone make a cost/benefit analysis of each part of the Milestones rules on how it enhances gameplay. Spell out the benefits compared to doing without Milestones.

I hate the Milestones rules but please present some good arguments for why I should learn to love them.

 

[avin]

I can't help you. Milestones are out of my 4E games.

 

[MerricB]

Tell me how the Milestones rules makes your 4E games more fun and exciting.

Please, someone make a cost/benefit analysis of each part of the Milestones rules on how it enhances gameplay. Spell out the benefits compared to doing without Milestones.

I hate the Milestones rules but please present some good arguments for why I should learn to love them.

Why do you need to love them? If you don't like them, ignore them. D&D has quite happily survived through thirty years without using them.

Within the structure of 4e, they provide the following benefits:
* They reward PCs for continuing play with three bonuses. The first is an additional action point. Action points are fun - they allow the PCs to pull off great manuevers, often chaining maneuvers together. Once you reach Paragon level, those action points give even more powers.
* The second is an additional daily power gifted by a magic item.
* The third only occurs sometimes: some magic items have properties that only start working after the first milestone is reached in a day.

These bonuses then work together to reward the PCs for continued play rather than the "5 minute day" where they use all their dailies in the first encounter and then go home to rest.

If you don't like milestones, then don't use them. Give out extra action points every so often, because action points are fun.

They're used as an incentive to keep the group moving, but whether you use them is up to you.

Cheers!

 

[Henrix]

I like milestones, although I mostly see them as an opportunity to give the PCs an extra action point.

However, I vastly prefer deciding as a DM when a milestone has occurred, and not just giving them out once every two encounters. In short, a milestone should be a milestone in the adventure, when something important has been accomplished. Not just for slogging along for pointless combat after pointless combat.

 

[Pbartender]

I like milestones, although I mostly see them as an opportunity to give the PCs an extra action point.

However, I vastly prefer deciding as a DM when a milestone has occurred, and not just giving them out once every two encounters. In short, a milestone should be a milestone in the adventure, when something important has been accomplished. Not just for slogging along for pointless combat after pointless combat.

I'm pretty muchin the same boat here... I like the idea of milestones, but I hate the implementation.

I was considering switiching to something similar to what Henrix is suggesting, and flat out tell the players when the next obvious milestone is, kind of like a quest "checkpoint"... "when you guys find the stairs down to the next level, you reach the next mile stone" or some such.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I'm pretty muchin the same boat here... I like the idea of milestones, but I hate the implementation.

I was considering switiching to something similar to what Henrix is suggesting, and flat out tell the players when the next obvious milestone is, kind of like a quest "checkpoint"... "when you guys find the stairs down to the next level, you reach the next mile stone" or some such.

I remember reading a comment by one of the designers that this was one of the original ideas for them, but they decided it might be too imprecisely defined...

 

[TerraDave]

I don't have a problem with them, but I do support Henrix's point.

Regarding the magic item dailies...this is a little clunky...but is there to keep PCs from hoarding a bunch of low + magic items for the dailies. If you don't use milestones, probably easiest to just say one magic item daily from all a pcs items, or maybe one daily per tier (ie 2 at paragon, 3 at epic). Actually, I just made the last one up, and kind of like it.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I don't have a problem with them, but I do support Henrix's point.

Regarding the magic item dailies...this is a little clunky...but is there to keep PCs from hoarding a bunch of low + magic items for the dailies. If you don't use milestones, probably easiest to just say one magic item daily from all a pcs items, or maybe one daily per tier (ie 2 at paragon, 3 at epic). Actually, I just made the last one up, and kind of like it.

Isn't this already the case, except you get more via milestone?

 

[Dedekind]

Conceptually, I think it is awesome. There is an in-game mechanic that encourages more play and also makes things seem heroic.

As a DM, I don't think it provides enough encouragement to not have a five minute work day. As a player, I really like them, but I wish there was more in-game benefits associated with them.

Ways I might change it for the future IMC:
1) Give a healing surge as well as an action point.
2) In dungeons, designate certain destinations as milestones. If the players reach there, they will get an action point. This has the added benefit of attaching importance to an area, whatever the reason. You can also prep the party for a tough encounter by giving them an action point before they go in the room, not after.
3) Allow players to trade action points in for recharging daily powers (sorta like the original 3e action point rules). Maybe 2 action points to get back one daily power. That way it is still resource management, but is more flexible.
4) Provide additional, limited-use action points. Every completed encounter gives you an additional action point that can only be used for move actions (or converted to minor actions). This might be an issue with PCs that have powers that require a minor to sustain... I would have to look at the consequences.

You may want to be very flexible in what you regard as an encounter, also. I would count Skill Challenges for the purposes of milestones.

 

[Gargoyle]

I just house rule that every encounter is a milestone. Simplifies it for me and increases the number of action points.

Within the structure of 4e, they provide the following benefits:
* They reward PCs for continuing play with three bonuses. The first is an additional action point. Action points are fun - they allow the PCs to pull off great manuevers, often chaining maneuvers together. Once you reach Paragon level, those action points give even more powers.
* The second is an additional daily power gifted by a magic item.
* The third only occurs sometimes: some magic items have properties that only start working after the first milestone is reached in a day.

These bonuses then work together to reward the PCs for continued play rather than the "5 minute day" where they use all their dailies in the first encounter and then go home to rest.

I find that making every encounter a milestone actually rewards them more for continued play. Your action points reset to 1 at the end of an extended rest, and the players like to accumulate action points for harder encounters.

The effect on magic items I admit I didn't consider, but I think its ok still.

Agree with you, ignore milestones if you want, keep them if you like em. But if we're discussing the merits of RAW, I have to say I think they should have left them out. Awarding more action points is fun and more simple, and doesn't seem to unbalance anything.