D&D General Are NPCs like PCs?

[Helldritch]

Pre-emptive edition war aside, and editions aside entirely, why do YOU think that spellcasting in particular should be the same between PCs and NPCs and (spellcasting) monsters?

Consistency. Predictability. Ease of use.
More than that?
Ok.
Availability of power to the players?
If an NPC spell caster can do it, so should the PC spell casters. A new spell? Ok. Can I make the research? The DM might put some restrictions, research costs and so on. But it would be possible. Not necessarily easy, but possible.

With at will, daily, x/day powers, it is simply not possible for a pc to achieve the same as a "playable" NPC. (See the Fizban Book and the NPC in there. No logic at all!)

Spell casting monsters have always used at will and x/day powers. Some of their powers can't be replicated by PCs and rightly so.

And for non casting NPC. Even their abilities can be replicated by martial classes. Especially the Battle Master. Rogue like NPC can be replicated by PC and so on.

Casters are especially annoying to make like PCs. Picking 20 spells for a chump that's not going to last 6 rounds? No thank you.

Use the pregen then. Change a bit and voilà! It took you about 3 minutes of your time but your players can achieve the same power as that NPC. And if it is a wizard, they might even find the spellbook somewhere. A very prized item indeed. The problem in 1-3.xed was that there were no template. Not so with 5ed! We got the templates we wanted! It was a great win for everyone. Now, we lost it for no reason for the one you put above. Bravo...

 

[Vaalingrade]

With this change in how foes are now build, they directly go against all the playtests we've been through. They go against all the play tests showed them, their collected data and the philosophy behind the DnD Next.

And thank all my dark and virulent gods for that.

Maybe we can get the Next fighter and the other things the playtests stole from us because they were focused on retaining the nostalgia crowd back too.

 

[Helldritch]

And thank all my dark and virulent gods for that.

Maybe we can get the Next fighter and the other things the playtests stole from us because they were focused on retaining the nostalgia crowd back too.

Then let them make a 6th edition. The change in philosophy is a major one. Enough to warrant a new edition!

 

[Vaalingrade]

Use the pregen then.

I'm still going to have to comb through all the useless spells to get to the four they're actually going to use in the encounter. No thanks again.

I build encounters, not characters. I wait until Sunday or Monday game where I'm playing to do that.

And spellbooks encourage Vancian Casting. I don't want that.

 

[Reynard]

Consistency. Predictability. Ease of use.
More than that?
Ok.
Availability of power to the players?
If an NPC spell caster can do it, so should the PC spell casters. A new spell? Ok. Can I make the research? The DM might put some restrictions, research costs and so on. But it would be possible. Not necessarily easy, but possible.

With at will, daily, x/day powers, it is simply not possible for a pc to achieve the same as a "playable" NPC. (See the Fizban Book and the NPC in there. No logic at all!)

Spell casting monsters have always used at will and x/day powers. Some of their powers can't be replicated by PCs and rightly so.

And for non casting NPC. Even their abilities can be replicated by martial classes. Especially the Battle Master. Rogue like NPC can be replicated by PC and so on.

Thank you. I don't agree, but I understand your reasoning now, and i hope you have the tools you want at the same time I have the tools I want. Admittedly mine are easier to find because I essentially invent those tools anytime I want a cool NPC.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Then let them make a 6th edition. The change in philosophy is a major one. Enough to warrant a new edition!

I feel like we don't get to tell them what they consider a new edition. It's their IP, not ours.

 

[Cadence]

I'm still going to have to comb through all the useless spells to get to the four they're actually going to use in the encounter. No thanks again.

I build encounters, not characters. I wait until Sunday or Monday game where I'm playing to do that.

And spellbooks encourage Vancian Casting. I don't want that.

Can PCs decide to know and to memorize fewer spells if they want? Is anyone who wants NPC casters done PC like worried about low level utility spells for the archmage encounter? Is it just that they would like NPC wizard spells to have the same backstory and interoperability as the PC ones?

 

[Reynard]

Let's say for example that the party defeats Balkalathe the Indomitable, Sorcerer-Priest of the Outer Dark, who cast The Soul Rending Shriek of Mal'athazar -- 18d6 necrotic damage (DC 19 Con save for half) plus 2d6 charisma drain (DC 21 Wis save for half). The party wizard says, "I want to learn that spell!"

How do you handle that, assuming it was just an ability in the stat block and not a written up spell?

 

[Haffrung]

No. I’m at the stage in my life where ease of running the game at the table trumps pretty much all other considerations. The pros of fully-stated NPCs are far outweighed by the work and hassle involved. An NPC only needs as much detail as will be useful in its interactions with the PCs, which is typically a single roleplaying or combat encounter. If those game elements can be compressed into a dramatically abbreviate stat block, that’s a clear win. And that includes magic and spells.

 

[Vaalingrade]

"I'm sorry, I was drunk when I made this. I would never normally use ability drain. Also, what part of 'priest' did you not get, wizzie boy?"