Are "Pretty" Dungeons Better?

[Hussar]

I really like that map! Great to look at, and gives the designer the ability to create more three-dimensional spaces. Does the product also have a standard, top-down map, though? Because I think you'd need the utility of that as well.

Doing illustrative maps like that adds real cost to a product, but I think it adds real value as well. Both in terms of design quality for the adventure (because it adds the ability for the designer to work in three dimensions) and the production value.

IIRC this is from Kobold Quarterly and there is a top down view.

When I used this map in an adventure, I was running on maptools. I simply used the isometric view which was great. You can skew the tokens slightly to fit the isometric grid and it really adds a lot to the adventure.

Not sure how you'd do this on a tabletop to be honest. One of the Savage Tide adventures had a fantastic base for the pirates which was a bunch of ships stacked on top of each other Pirates of the Caribean style. I know more than a few people made models for the adventure that looked great.

 

[Major Moab]

This may seem like a self centered and trite answer, but please bear with: It depends on the character I am playing.

If my character is a rough and ready barbarian or fighter, who is hunting a villainous so and so, I really don't care about the architecture beyond tactical value. I don't care if the pillar I am lurking behind is Dorian or Corinthian, so long as it is wide. Any "extraneous detail" is going to bore me.

However, if I am playing a bard or cleric who studies history in great detail, those details are very important to me. I want to know who created this structure, what it was purposed for, and what the culture who made it believed in. These are as important as the npc's I am dealing with.

The summary of this is: look at your PC's. Do you have a number of characters interested in the structure? Then flesh it thoroughly. If they are more like a rampaging force for Good, skip the detail. It will probably be destroyed by the time they are done, anyhow.

 

[was]

never really got hung up on the room dimensions

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

So much depends on the dynamics of the gaming group.. but what I popped in here for was to give an anecdotal bit for designing dungeons with history...

For a short introductory game I decided to have a bit of fun with a lost outpost. The outpost was originally an elvish outpost that had some nice magical defenses but they were overrun by dwarves.. who put up a 'temporary' garrison on the same spot and were later run out by a nearby volcanoes eruption. Fast forward a number of years to when the volcanic ash returned to verdant growth and a bandit group used the ruins as their hideout, and put most of their loot in a lava tunnel that had bored its way through the small hill. They seeded some Archer Bushes to act as defenses. The defenses of the Elvin stronghold still worked. Specifically the teleport trap that bamfed intruders into what once was the brig... previously located on the second story.

Enter the PCs trying to bring the bandits to justice. They were all sorts of confused why there was a teleport trap that poofed them into the air over an Archer bush, until someone figured out the history of the place and the entire deal made sense.

This history and detail of the site turned a *yawn* plot-line {farmer hires PCs to defeat bandits} into a real story.

So, long story short.. 'pretty' dungeons are my preference

 

[Niccodaemus]

Castle, by David Macaulay

For a great book on castle design, I highly recommend David Macaulay's Castle:
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Castle-David-Macaulay/dp/0395329205]Amazon.com: Castle (0046442329200): David Macaulay: Books[/ame]

In my mind, the best gaming supplement you can buy. Here's a typical castle tower I designed based off of his book:

The interior of the tower is 30 feet in diameter. The exterior is 50 feet. The walls are 10 feet thick.

The staircase tower is 30 feet in diameter, with a 5 foot wide staircase. There are archery slots for light.

The window ledge is 10 feet by 10 feet. The fireplace 5 feet by 5 feet deep. To the right, is a garderobe, or shitpot. It overhangs the wall.

The shadows are to give an idea where a thief could hide undetected. An unpleasant way to break into our out of the castle is through the garderobe.

Should the floor burn or rot away, it presents interesting physical challenges.
What if you are trapped in a burning room? What if you are exploring the empty shell of a ruined tower?

The walls are thick enough to have secret passeges in them. Typically, they would be built with an inner and outer course of stone, with the interior of the wall (the five foot wide portion in the rendering) filled with rubble.

Even the staircase tower could have a hidden spiral starcase in the center of it, leading to rooms between rooms.. floor only reachable by that particular staircase.

An an old 4 story tower, with all the floors and roof rotted out, you could hide an adult dragon. What if the upper floor still had a beam or two intact? You could walk into the tower on the ground floor, with a sleeping dragon hanging upside down directly overhead.

A small flying creature (gargoyle, vampire, etc...) taking residence in the fireplace would be quite difficult to reach.

When you take into account how things were actually built, it affords room for all sorts of creativity you can't get when your walls are the thickness of pencil lead.

 

[Vascant]

For a great many years I was one of those people who just got along with black and white maps, pen or pencil on graph paper was all I ever needed but Dungeon Magazine ruined that. For me I quickly started to see that maps that had a personality reflected the mood of the dungeon when played, I also found my players getting into things a bit more. The bad part of this is no one is going to draw such beasts for you so you have to learn to do it yourself and Photoshop is a beast to tame. I am currently mapping out my next campaign world which is going to be completely underground, this is a good example of it not existing and if you want to run something different you have to do it yourself. Since this will include over 50 map panels that are 12x16 inches it is going to be quite time consuming (I am also offering them for free for others because I would hate to think of someone else having to do this) but I do think if I am going to go through all of the trouble of writing solid content for my players to enjoy shouldn't the maps reflect this? On the flip side of this topic maps are like art, what one person likes to finds has personality another person hates so your mileage will vary.

 

[CharlesRyan]

Macaulay's Castle is a fantastic book; every gamer should have it on his or her shelf.

His fictional castle is closely based on Conwy in northern Wales (the floor plan is different, but it's pretty much exactly that castle in every other detail, right down to the spikes on the battlements). I wrote a lengthy and heavily-illustrated blog post on British castles, with a particular focus on Conwy, here: Ten Reasons Why Every Gamer Should Live in England The Fascinating World of Charles Ryan

 

[Thanael]

The thought strikes me that you could make an intentionally 'random' dungeon but have that randomness be part of the story and design.

Let me explain.

Say a wizard wanted to construct a 'classic' dungeon full of rooms of random traps and critters, and had done so. But the result was actually complete chaos, with monsters constantly stumbling into traps and getting stuck in blind dead ends. The players might stumble upon a goblin complaining that "I can never find the restroom in this place".

Could make for a fun dungeon.

This sounds a whole lot like Castle Greyhawk, the granddaddy of all megadungeons, which was made by a mad archmage who later ascended to demigod of humor, eccentricity, occult lore, and unpredictability.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

"Dungeons don't have to make sense, but they do need to be full of variety. Having said that, a little thought on the placement of creatures doesn't go amiss----if there's some logic behind the dungeon, then it's easier for skilled players to work out what's going on and use it to their advantage, and rewarding player skill is an important aspect..."

I'm quoting myself (the above originally appeared in OSRIC, p. 162).

An attractive map is better than an ugly one, of course. Here's one of my favourites:-

http://rpgcharacters.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/hellad-manor-and-tower-web.jpg?w=630&h=511

I didn't draw that. The person who did uses the handle "Dyson Logos" on Dragonsfoot, but that's all I know about them.

 

[Hussar]

"Dungeons don't have to make sense, but they do need to be full of variety. Having said that, a little thought on the placement of creatures doesn't go amiss----if there's some logic behind the dungeon, then it's easier for skilled players to work out what's going on and use it to their advantage, and rewarding player skill is an important aspect..."

I'm quoting myself (the above originally appeared in OSRIC, p. 162).

An attractive map is better than an ugly one, of course. Here's one of my favourites:-

http://rpgcharacters.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/hellad-manor-and-tower-web.jpg?w=630&h=511

I didn't draw that. The person who did uses the handle "Dyson Logos" on Dragonsfoot, but that's all I know about them.

I think that map is using the Dungeon Geomorphs that he designed. You can generate entire random dungeons using his gorgeous geomorphs here. Fantastic stuff.