Are Spells Balanced by Level?

[mmadsen]

What about a spell that turns them into statues, but the spell is broken if they are rapped smartly they turn back?

Ooh, I think I've got it: they're frozen until one of their friends dives between their legs! Wow, who else remembers freeze tag?

Seriously though, I guess the challenge is thinking of curses/transformations with obvious (and somewhat sensible) counters, since we want a typical enemy to know how to counter the spell.

 

[hong]

What about a spell that turns them into statues, but the spell is broken if they are rapped smartly they turn back?

Far too flashy. Try again, please!

 

[mmadsen]

Far too flashy. Try again, please!

Cute, hong, but we're not discussing subtle magic here.

If anything, my personal taste -- in case you're interested -- leans toward "classic" magic, the kind that wouldn't feel out of place in, say, Narnia. The Sleep spell would work just fine, but turning people into toads or statues certainly works too.

As an added benefit, if the evil sorceress turns our heroes into toads or statues, or if she curses them somehow, that leads to an interesting adventure to undo the curse or transformation (assuming you don't let Remove Curse handle anything and everything).

But this is way off topic for this thread. Anyone interested in alternative magic schemes should swing by the other thread.

 

[hong]

As an added benefit, if the evil sorceress turns our heroes into toads or statues, or if she curses them somehow, that leads to an interesting adventure to undo the curse or transformation (assuming you don't let Remove Curse handle anything and everything).

This plot thing is a total red herring. An imaginative DM can devise interesting plots regardless of how much magic exists in the campaign -- high magic, low magic, or even _no_ magic. Conversely, an unimaginative DM will probably have even more trouble devising plots in a world with subtle magic, compared to lots of it.

 

[mmadsen]

And sorcs are never going to use sleep at all, because it's useless once they get past 4th level or so, and spells known are a precious resource for a sorc.

Bringing us back to D&D's odd notion of spell scaling -- some scale quite strongly (Magic Missile, Fireball), while others scale almost negatively (e.g. Sleep, with its max HD limit).

Would it ruin the game to have Magic Missile I through IX? Fireball I through IX? What if we considered each spell "ladder" just one spell known?

 

[mmadsen]

This plot thing is a total red herring.

Is Ravenloft's use of curses with Escape Clauses "a total red herring"? Many, many fantasy/myth/folklore plots revolve around an interesting curse and attempts to undo it. Why wouldn't we want that to be an integral part of our magic system?

 

[hong]

Would it ruin the game to have Magic Missile I through IX? Fireball I through IX? What if we considered each spell "ladder" just one spell known?

Who cares? It's not like the spells you mention are majorly broken as it is.

Change is good if it enhances the gaming experience. Changing things for other reasons, including for vague notions of "elegance" or "symmetry", is pointless.

 

[hong]

Is Ravenloft's use of curses with Escape Clauses "a total red herring"? Many, many fantasy/myth/folklore plots revolve around an interesting curse and attempts to undo it. Why wouldn't we want that to be an integral part of our magic system?

Is anything stopping you from doing it right now?

 

[mmadsen]

Some Popular Spells:
1st: Magic Missile, Shield, Mage Armor, Sleep
2nd: Web, Glitterdust, Alter Self, Invisibility, Rope Trick, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Endurance, Flaming Sphere, Melf's Acid Arrow
3rd: Fireball, Haste, Fly, Dispel Magic
4th: Polymorph Other

Now, if we bumped those spells up a level, would people still take them?

 

[Dinkeldog]

mmadsen, in Monte's alt.sorcerer, he bumps up the level of shield and haste. I would say those are still going to see use, although the sorcerer player in my game that retooled his character only took haste. Invisibility would also likely still get taken.

Among the third level spells that also get taken a lot, you have blink (auto-sneak attack for rogues) and displacement (50% miss chance on all attacks against you).

For weak spells, anything that ends in "image". The inability of those spells to even cause subdual damage along with the concentration requirement makes them inferior to anything else at their level, even given their flexibility. Add to that how most DMs I know have dealt with illusions (ignore all illusions instinctively), and you kill the meat of the low-level illusionist. The only purposes are defensive: mirror image (yes, it ends in "image", but it's not in the chain), displacement, invisibility, improved invisibility.

Identify sees a lot of use, but few other divinations.

Necromantic spells in general are ignored.

Overall, you have power-tiers. Evocation, for damage infliction; Conjuration, for damage infliction (direct or indirect); Alteration, for buffing, all get used frequently. Enchantment, against opponents with minds; Illusion, for defense only (and not in the "image" chain; and Abjuration, for dispel magic and defense, get used occasionally, usually to strengthen a weak point in defense. Divination seems to be used for three spells: detect magic, identify, and true seeing. Necromancy has enervation that is useful as a 4th level spell for sorcerers, as it doesn't allow a saving throw.

So for the question of balance by spell level, the answer is not really. The tiers, though seem fairly well balanced against each other. Divination and Necromancy seem to be fairly useless through most of their levels. Evocation, Conjuration, and Alteration, on the other hand, seem to be useful at all levels.